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  1. #1
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    What does it take to make a traitor legion?

    I'm thinking about converting my marine army to traitors. What would this do for my army would I get deamons? Would I be chaos undvided or could I pick a mark? What types of units would I be abole to add to my existing force.

    Also heres a list of My current collection. Could you just tell me what I can and can not use. Also some conversion Ideas would be nice.

    List:
    1 Marine commander
    1 Chaplin with powerfist
    2 Dreadnoughts
    50 Tactical marines with all of the weapons
    2 rhinos
    3 Landspeeder tornados
    10 assault marines
    3 bikes
    Predator anihilator
    Whirlwind


    My army is currently painted and played mainly as Ultra Marines, would it make sence fluff wise to have a traitor Ultra Marine army?

    Last edited by Caluin; January 23rd, 2006 at 19:29.

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  3. #2
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout
    I'm thinking about converting my marine armys to traitors. What would this do for my army would I get deamons? Would I be chaos undvided or could I pick a mark? What types of units would I be abole to add to my existing force.

    Also heres a list of My current collection. Could you just tell me what I can and can not use. Also some conversion Ideas would be nice.

    List:
    1 Marine commander
    1 Chaplin with powerfist
    2 Dreadnoughts
    50 Tactical marines with all of the weapons
    2 rhinos
    3 Landspeeder tornados
    10 assault marines
    3 bikes
    Predator anihilator
    Whirlwind


    My army is currently painted and played mainly as Ultra Marines, would it make sence fluff wise to have a traitor Ultra Marine army?
    1) First of all, you can pick any marks you want, as long as you follow the rules in the codex. You can even use no marks of Chaos and still use the codex for other rules. Make sure you read up on these pretty carefully.

    2) You don't have to include Daemons if you don't want to. If you do, make sure you read all rules pertaining them rather carefully.

    3) Chaplains are only available in the Word Bearers rules, but you can use the model to represent something else if you want. Also, Chaos doesn't get Whirlwinds or Land Speeders.

    4) As for UltraMarines turning traitor, I would say, fluffwise, absolutely not. They are one of the most devout Chapters in the Imperium, so you may want to maybe use an inkwash or something to darken their armour, or repaint them, to represent a different traitor chapter.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Caluin; January 23rd, 2006 at 19:30.

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    Thanks for the quick answears!

    As for the painting schem Ill load DOW up and try to darken an ultramainre.:yes:

    (I reped you but its still coming up as 22!?)

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    Senior Member Ubernyaw's Avatar
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    welcome to the dark side :ninja:

    you could also just paint them evil looking and say that they're a traitor legion, but use normal Space Marine rules so you can still have the chaplain and whirlwind. Or, you could play them sort of like Red Corsairs and put red x's through all of their chapter and imperial insignia. That looks pretty cool.

    However, if you don't want to, you could use the Chaplain as an aspiring champion maybe? And the whirwind could probably be converted into a pred if you so chose. The two dreadnaughts are easy enough to use, just repaint them. If I remember correctly the close combat arms on chaos dreadnaughts look different, but you you could reason not changing them out by saying that they've recently gone traitor. The 10 assault marines could work as raptors, (or use them as Possesed marines with demonic flight) and the rest of your army kinda falls into place. Except the land speeders, they're sorta unusable in a chaos list. Maybe you could proxy them as bikes, but that's really stretching it.

    As for which Chaos army you'd play, your options are fairly open. Just beware of the themed armies, (World Eaters, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, etc) because the way they build their armies often prohibits you from using many of these units. World Eaters, for instance, couldn't use raptors, (aka ur assault marines) if memory serves Death Guard can't use bikes, and so forth. So, you could just try Black Legion (undivided) for now. And while you don't have to get daemons, it's something that you shouldn't rule out, especially if you're playing one of the themed armies, because that gives you a tad bit more versitility in creating your list.

    As far as conversions, to get really detailed, good ones I'd say you need to decide which army you want to play as first, and from there you could convert away into whatever you want. For instance, if you gave somebody a mark of nurgle, sickly skin and true grit are in order, if they have the mark of slaanesh, just cut them up, bugged out eyes, etc. If it's an Aspiring Champion, be sure to make him especially crazy looking, and for demonic gifts you could really go nuts with conversions. But you have to know what you want first.
    "And any man who comes through this fight mostly unharmed will be my sister! It'll be free frocks and jollies for ever, you'll see!"
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    So I could paint them as red corsairs and be abole to switch between using the chaos codex and the Space marine codex!?

    This will also open up more normal marine traits to my army, when I'm not playing Chaos!

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    Senior Member Ubernyaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout
    So I could paint them as red corsairs and be abole to switch between using the chaos codex and the Space marine codex!?

    This will also open up more normal marine traits to my army, when I'm not playing Chaos!
    you might get some sideways glances from rule mongers, but I'd let that go as being able to play both, so long as you don't covert them too heavily one way or the other, or say they're traitor marines using sm rules.
    "And any man who comes through this fight mostly unharmed will be my sister! It'll be free frocks and jollies for ever, you'll see!"
    - Rome: Total War

    my armies
    9th Black Watch (Imperial Guard) 4000 points
    Red Corsairs of Khorne 2000 points
    Space Wolves 13th Company 2000 points

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    Senior Member Bob Dole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout
    So I could paint them as red corsairs and be abole to switch between using the chaos codex and the Space marine codex!?

    This will also open up more normal marine traits to my army, when I'm not playing Chaos!
    You can really do that with any color scheme. The people that are going to get up in arms about Ultramarines playing with Chaos rules are probably going to get up in arms about anything that's interchangable. (Then, if you're lucky, they'll start complaining about how expensive the hobby is.)

    If you're worried about keeping things semi-fluffy, just avoid demons and to a (somewhat) lesser extent demonic upgrades. If you strip away everything demonic, CSM are remarkably similar to SM (as far as I've seen.) I have a hard time seeing a way to really explain away demons. They just don't fit for loyalists. Some of the non-vehicle demonic upgrades might slide by, but if you use them you're probably looking at cursed founding/excommunicathingamajigacus. I forget all of the vehicle upgrades, but many of the demonic vehicle upgrades can easily be passed off as either an improved Power of the Machine Spirit or extra armor. Think Scions of Mars, but good instead of bad.

    In all fairness, I come from a rather lenient environment. If you regularly play tournaments, this probably would fly about as well as a very heavy rock. Chained to another very heavy rock. On the bottom of the ocean. Sealed in a giant block of cement. With large warning signs saying 'Beware of the Leopard.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dole

    If you're worried about keeping things semi-fluffy, just avoid demons
    Thats the whle point to CSM, isent it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout
    Thats the whle point to CSM, isent it?
    Not really, no.

    There are many, many armies that don't use Daemons, really. I am not a very big Daemon user, myself, when I make CSM lists.

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    Well you could convert you Space Marines to Chaos Space Marines although that would be pretty time consuming. You could convert your

    Space Marine Dreads to Chaos Dreads by ink washing them with a darker color, repaint them with a more Chaos colors and/or add bits of spiky things.

    You could convert your Tactical Marines to Chaos marines using the same technique as for the Dreadnoughts.

    You could convert the Rhino's in to Chaos Rhino's and the Assault Marines to Raptors.

    The Predator to a Chaos Predator and the Marine Bikes to Chaos bikes.

    For all these you could just add some spiky bits and repaint or ink/dry brush them with a darker more Chaos looking color; while still keeping the a little bit of the Space Marine look (because they used to be Space Marines who came to Chaos).


    It's all up to you whether or not you want Daemons or any Chaos unit as long as you stick to the rules in the codex. You can choose any mark or undevided.

    It probally woudn't make much sense for the Ultramarines to be traders because they are very loyal to the Imperium; although, you could say that they were some different faction but if you did that you might have to repaint them that way which can be a pain. I'd probally just repaint them with Chaos colors and still give them a slight Space Marine look and just say that they weren't originally Ultramarines if you're worried about to fluff being semi-accurate.

    Ben
    Last edited by brushman; January 23rd, 2006 at 19:28.

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