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I am not new to the game, but new to Chaos. I have decided to start a Thousand Suns army with my tax check. I have the codex, but have yet to purchase models. I have a list here, and I would like to get some feed back. Keep in mind I have yet to buy any of these things except the codex.
2 Boxes of Thousand Suns marines (comes with 1 sorcerer lord each)
1 Dreadnaught or Predator
1 Chaos Lord
1 Box of Terminators
I know it's a pretty standard army for normal Chaos...but I know Thousand Suns are pretty unique with their psyker abilities. I was also thinking of sacrificing the Terminators to add another box of marines. So any input would be appreciated.
Before someone else says it....
Sons. Not Suns.
Anyways, welcome to the Dark Side. I'm sure you'll find it is not nearly so bad as the Loyalists make it out to be.That's a good start. I suggest the Predator over the Dread, but to each his own. The Predator is more effective, but the Dread has more personality.Originally Posted by LoestalDon't buy the standard Lord model - try converting your own. The Lord model that GW offers is a poor choice. The weapons he comes with (Powerfist and Combi-melta) are just plain bad.Originally Posted by LoestalI can't comment upon this - just remember that Thousand Sons terminators don't typically use Powerfists - the Rubrics are stuck using Powerweapons, and Chosen Termies aren't a wise investment in most cases. I would suggest going with more standard Thousand Sons in their place - a good solid core of troops will serve you better than expensive Termies.Originally Posted by Loestal
Do you have a list already in mind that you are looking to start building?
Nothing in particular. I am a Tyranid and Eldar player...and the Chaos codex is still new to me so I'm lookin for advice as I'm learning it. I definetly like the Thralls..I will be using those.
You say don't use a lord...then a Demon Prince or Lord of Change for my HQ? Ahriman is too expensive point wise for a starting player, so I will get him later.
Again...I don't know which psyker abilites are more effective in execution. I can kind of get an idea by reading but many times things look better on paper than actual game play.
The Terminators was just a last ditch effort to flesh out the starter army really. If not Terminators, then what elites do you recomend? I have heard that the minor demons aren't usually worth taking.
My instincts say go ahead.. Terminators are great, but they're the icing on any army. thousand sons are so low on troops in the first place that it's best to make sure you have a solid body of wounds before anything else.Originally Posted by Loestal
Also consider a rhino or two.. Most tables are big enough that walking to within 24" through difficult terrain can be annoying. Especially if someone has lascannons or a basilisk set up at the end of the board laughing at your slow moving ghost-marines.
You need to shore up weaknesses. Thousand sons are
1) incredibly resilient
2) very slow, when moving and when in CC.
So you need, in this order ...
1) Long-ranged heavy weapons
2) Potent HQ/aspiring champions for CC
3) Transport options for your troop choices
4) Good fast attack units
My suggestions ...
1) Buy two predators or two dreadnaughts. Whatever you buy, purchase daemonic possession and potentially mutated hull. Both of these will keep your preds/dreds alive and shooting for a long time. Get as many lascannons or missile launchers as possible. Dreds are better for move-and-fire, preds live longer. Take your pick.
2) Give all troop-squad aspiring champs a powerfist, 1 or 2 thralls, and a psychic power (thralls means they can cast it twice in 1 turn, at a cost of 1 thrall per time they do that). With 16 wounds in the way, your champ will get three or four power-fist attacks and three or four psychic powers off. Your rubric marines are there to keep him alive so kit him out with something nasty. I recommend wind of chaos, gift of chaos, or bolt of change ... they are all potent.
3) Think about a couple of rhinos for your rubric squads, unless you want a completely static army (I recommend the rhinos). People ***** about them but they're good transports. If you play 1500+ buy a land raider, for the heavy weps as well as the transport option.
4) Buy a squad of possessed with daemonic flight. Give two of them "bolt of change" and give two of them "winds of chaos." Your enemy will key on this unit, because it costs an enormous amount, but it can hop around roasting/bolting things. Hop from cover to cover. You could also go with daemonic talons and put them in a rhino. I prefer flight, because lots of other Tzeentch units can get flight.
These units include screamers (you want at least 1 unit), and the greater daemon of Tzeentch, which is an excellent character killer. It can also hop around shooting off a ranged psychic power (bolt of change or winds of chaos), it can summon the screamers, and it can follow your possessed.
If you don't take the greater daemon, buy a lord, give him a disc, a good weapon, and a nasty psychic power. Have him hop around behind the possessed, them summon the screamers to help. You can make up for your lack of CC and speed by using these three units in combination.
All IMHO, but that's what works for me.
Comfirmed Disciple of Chaos
Rogue Angel: "Meet da Chaos Lord"
Yes. One of the best reasons to play a Tzeentch army is the use of Thralls. They have their drawbacks, but the benefits more than make up for it.Originally Posted by LoestalNo, a Lord is fine to use - my point was not to use the particular model that GW has for a standard Lord. Chaos Lords and Lts. are extremely versatile and customizable.Originally Posted by LoestalHere's a quick breakdown.Originally Posted by Loestal
*Wind of Chaos - Extremely effective at destroying expensive, high toughness units. With the ability to ignore toughness and armour saves, it can quickly destroy units such as Terminators. The downside is that it is a Template attack, and can sometimes cost you the charge and safety of Close Combat.
*Gift of Chaos - Best used to snipe models in a squad. The only weapon avaliable to Chaos that allows them to target any model in range and potentially kill it. A powerfisted Sergeant causing you problems? Turn him into a Spawn. Librarian threatening you with that Force Axe? Make him part of your army. The downsides are the extremely short range (which can be made up with the Warp Focus), and that the Spawn will now create a unit with the IC if it happens to survive.
*Bolt of Change - Extremely strong, but expensive. Gives nice anti-tank ability to your IC and Troops choices. Even stronger with Thralls - imagine a Lt. in a troop squad, both him and the Champion have BoC and Thralls. That's almost like having four lascannons in the squad firing on the move.Flamers are good daemons, IMO. A lot of people don't care for them, but I like the mobile Heavy Bolters effect I get with them. As for Elites, Rubric Termies would be the way to go, but you want to build up a solid core force before going that route.Originally Posted by LoestalThe rest of your advice is solid, but I have to pick on this one point - Possessed aren't allowed to have the Bolt of Change power except for the Champion. The others are only allowed to have Wind of Chaos, Gift of Chaos, Mass Mutation or Doombolt.Originally Posted by Sabrewulf
Again, the rest of Sabrewulf's advice is solid. Especially the use of Rhinos.
Thanks alot guys...really appreciated. Everyone has helped alot. One more thing...am I reading right that Thousand Sons cannot take, Havoc squads or raptor squads but can take Obliterators?
I'm pretty sure Obliterators can't take marks, so therefore can't be taken in a thousand sons army.
"You challenge me knowing that I am Xiahou Dun!?"
Np, anything with a toughness value must have the mark of tzeentch - since oblits cannot have any mark, they cannot be used.
You could play a tzeentch themed black legion army, but that's not even half as cool as a pure thousand sons force.
The first piece of advice is to read Lord of Change's Tactica for the Thousand Sons. And as far as the Codex goes p38 is the one to focus upon.
About the access to the psychic powers, this deserves a thread of it's own.
Then on the Possessed, that would indeed be a very expensive unit. I got one of these units (possessed with Daemonic Flight) and belive me they are to expensive to use. They are to easily killed. If there were any way to get them Rubriks flying OK, but not ordinary one wounders.
You mentioned Ahriman, don't even get him later. No matter how much later you intended - he just is not worth his points. Forget him. If you can use the WD Chapter Approved Special HQ Chosen of Ahriman tough...With your opponents approval.
I second Caluin's thought on the Flamers, they are crazy. One could go as far as to say they make Tau-players go completely banana. Horrors are not good. In fact they are really bad. Really, really,really, really, really bad.
Transports has been mentioned and they play a key role in a Thousand Sons army. Two rhinos will improve your mobility and they will also make it possible for you to use spells like Wind of Chaos and Gift of Chaos on your terms.
My advice here would be to buy one box of sons and get an additional champion. Then make two small units, one in each Rhino and give the Champ some Thralls and cc-ability.
It's very nice to ride up beside someone and unleash two winds or jusmp out on him and turn two of his models into Spawns.
As for HQ, unless I get to use Chosen of Ahriman, I will have a Lt with Bolt of Change, Tankhunter (be prepared on a rules debate, prepare by clicking *here*) and four Thralls. On some special occasions I would also equip him with a powerweapon, but that's far from the best use for him. Better to leave the unit then to be dragged into a CC IMO. Everything is so expensive in a Thousand Sons army, so one will benefit from having a cheap HQ.
If you want an elite unit the best option is the Rubrik Terminator. That's 2W in a Termiarmour. With powerweapon and I4. :yes: Costs less then the flyers discussed earlier too.
To sum it up.
Rubrik Troops are great.
Flamers are great.
Rhinos are great.
Cheap HQ is great.
Thralls are greatilygreatgreat.
Your HS is your friend. THe opponent's HS is your worst nightmare(...apart from the one about vacuuming)
Horrrors are bad.
Possessed and Chosen are way to expensive.
And for tactics.
Keep focused and don't spread out. Keep your units close together so they can support one and other. Shoot. Walk. Shoot while walking.