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theres a 30% off clearance in some local store and i wanna buy some crap
ok im a noob and was wondering if u guys could lay down the facts of what i need to know about a Tzeentch army
well, Tzeentch. Fluffwise Tzeentch is the lord of change. he is change incarnate. he is a master spellweaver, and of trickery. none can match his magic might and most of the sorcerors of chaos worship him. Tzeentch manipulates mortals to no end because he can forsee the future and moulds the galaxy to his liking. The most renowned chapter of chaos that follows Tzeentch is the Thousand Sons. The Thousand Sons betrayed The Emperor in the horus heresy and found praise under Tzeentch. The primarch of the thousand sons is Magnus the Red, renowned for his single cyclopean eye. The Thousand Sons are no longer flesh and bone, but rather dust. their souls are now entomber in their armor and they still fight on in Tzeentchs' name. anyways, about their gameplay, the thousand sons are tough and slow so you are going to need long range weapons. also you get powerful sorcery, that only the eldar can possibly match. well thats all i know, im an ork player myself. hope this helps! good luck!
they are tough to take down. my friend plays 'em, and he has 4000pts. i cry at night after gaming. they wre also turned to dust by some sorcerers spell, and i guess trhat i only took out the ones without helmets. it also gets colder near them because their power armor sucks the energy from the environment to be able move. pretty sweet tactically, and fluffwise.
They have the most powerful magic in the game...... except Slaanesh. Slaanesh has way better minor powers and access to most of the same psychic powers Tzeentch does. Oh and Daemonhunters. And the new SM librarian powers are better than the Tzeentch ones. Oh Farseers in the Eldar army definitely are better psychers. So.....basically Tzeentch only has one good psychic power the Bolt of Change, and that is only because they can't have any decent weapons. It's 30 points for god's sake, and you would be better of spending about a third that for a melta or plama gun or something.
So I don't get them really. I had to descide on an army last month, and I thought heavily about Tzeentch. I like the way they look, their story, but their rules are atrocious. So I didn't get them. I don't get the fact that they are supposed to be major Psychers, but didn't get much cool psychic stuff. Oh well.
If you do get them, probably best to start with a Sorceror blister, 2 boxes of the troops, on terminator box, and a predator. I think that would give you a nice little starter army.
I still like them though, I just wish their rules were better.
I have to say, i heartily disagree with this post - and not just because i'm a 3 year tzeentch veteran. Yes, thousand sons did get vaguely nerfed, but with the incidence of the new slow and purposeful rules and the fact that they don't take psychic tests, there are several things about them that aren't broken.Originally Posted by northoceanbeach
Slaanesh powers - as you said, they are MINOR powers. They also require a psychic test to use, and are terrible for basing a strategy around as they are random. I don't like paying fifty-odd points so you definitely get the power you want. Slaanesh also has a distinct lack of offensive powers. They also do not have access to the twisting path, bolt of change, any Tzeentch minor powers, and have to pay extra to be a sorcerer. Not as great a deal as tzeentch, i'd say.
Daemonhunters...well it really depends on what you define as "better" - their powers are mainly focused on destroying daemons, and Tzeentch can do that on it's own. You also have to remember that fluffwise, all grey knights are slightly psychic, whereas all thousand sons are not. So it's practically a given their powers are going to be pretty good.
SM librarians - yes, their psychic powers are good. But they're also fairly high points, and most of the really good ones are combined to combat -vortex of doom isn't that good.
Eldar Farseers - this is a joke, right? Farseers, even being some of the oldest psykers in the galaxy have, comparatively speaking, some of the WORST selection of powers in the game. Eldritch storm - oh wow, my massive blast that i paid 35 points for killed...a gaunt. Fortune - it's a good power, but simply keeps the psyker alive longer...why? He's not even that good in combat. Guide is worth the points, but still means the farseer has to stand at the back of the board with the big shooter unit where he should be. The only powers i'd say are really good are destructor and mind war - enhance included there if the warlock is attached to a squad.
Don't bash bolt of change - do you realise what you're paying for? It's an assault krak missile, that, with the aid of some thrall wizards, can kill two terminators a turn, or blow up any vehicle. I take it on all my aspiring champions, and it does wonders.
They have some cool wargear too - inferno bolts are just fun as hell, especially on a marine with a storm bolter. The warp blade is excellent against tyranids and other heavily psychic races. The bedlam staff - it's a thunder hammer, without the doubling, but it's not slow!
As for the starter army, i wouldn't recommend terminators - trust me, you wouldn't have nearly enough points. First of all, go out, and buy or convert yourself a sorcerer - i personally think conversion is better as i didn't think that any of the current sorcerer range truly represent thousand sons. Then get two boxes of thousand sons (and preferably an extra one per 500 points of Chaos) and some kind of fire support - a lascannon predator or missile launcher and lascannon dreadnought - trust me, if you overwhelm the enemy with gunfire, you don't need the uber combat ability. Then grab yourself a space filler - horrors (with a few flamers scattered in) or even a second dreadnought, this one configured with lascannon and close combat weapon. Or a defiler. It's up to you.
Anything more i say would simply be repeating the thoughts in my tactica - found here:
Good luck with your thousand sons - trust me, you might fail with them for a little while, but soon you'll succeed nearly every game and it'll be very satisfying.
The only difference between tattooed people and non-tattooed people is that tattooed people are awesome and can kick your ass.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
Aye, the inferno bolt had me wanting a Tzeentch kill team - or better yet- Tzeentch lead LatD with a couple squads of Thousand Sons. Keep in mind I'm a Khorne man, but that inferno bolt is pretty darn cool.Originally Posted by Lordofchange
The hats aren't half bad either.
Well, that's the problem with Tzeentch, all the good stuff can only be taken Characters and AC's and they only have one wound. The Inferno bolts are ten points but just make a bolter have a blast marker instead, which usually gets one more hit, compared to giving an AC a power weapon, which costs the same, but ignores the armour of 3+ guys at the same strength of the bolts
Now, you mentioned that normal psychers have to take a test and they will fail and then everyone will shoot them to pieces. Well, how often do you really fail a psychic test? I mean come on. And you can always for any army buy a warp talisman for if during the game you do fail a test you can reroll it. Not really making the 10 points for sorceror with no test worth it. Psychic powers in this game just do NOT play a very big roll. And they make this army sorcerors, yet they giv e them nothing that really stands out.
The bolt of change isn't exactly a tank killer either. S8 ain't THAT good. If I shot two missle launchers at a predator, IF, IF they both hit, I would have to roll 5's just for a glancing hit. Probably not happening. YOu need a whole squad of Havocs with missile launchers and tank hunters(which of coarse Tzeentch can't have) to really have a good chance of tank busting. Or melta guns. Again, Tzeentch can't take.
Think about it this way, AC's can have up to 19 wounds for the squad (the slow empty hulks of the thousand sons have 2 wounds each), plus you can have 6 of them as troops. Then you have thrall wizards who allow them to do the work of two psykers. You just have to know what you're doing with Tzeentch and the advantage is nobody else will. Not to mention you can take an entire squad psykers (albeit expensive psykers) in the form of possessed maraines.Originally Posted by northoceanbeachOk, hq sorcerers hit on a 2+ and get 2 shots with a thrall wizard giving them roughly a 50% chance of glancing or penetrating. The chances for an AC would get about a 37% chance of doing the same. Now multiply that by 8 or more. That's a dead tank.Originally Posted by northoceanbeach
But this doesn't consider the fact that tzeentch can still take 3 predators of their own each armed with, essentially, 4 lascannons.
Last edited by hsin_dragon; February 3rd, 2006 at 14:22.
Yeah, I have to agree fully with hsin_dragon and lord_of_change on this thread. Tzeentch is seriously one of the most competitive chaos armies out there right now (same as deathguard and word bearers). Thousand Sons marines are pretty solid.
Yeah, ok, they're slow in CC, but with 16-18 wounds protecting your AC, he's gonna get to make A LOT of attacks by the end of the game (most likely). Inferno bolts ARE fun, not the most effective use of points, but against nids or ork they can be totally obscene...ESPECIALLY in rapid fire range.
Bolt of Change is AMAZING. As said, it's an assault Krak missile with AP2. And yes, it will bust up most tanks pretty well. You have to consider the fact that your average vehicle is going to be armor 11-13, only requiring a roll of 3+-5+ to damage it. As said, with 2 shots a turn from EACH sorceror (in my army I could take 6 shots a turn), you've got one dead tank/terminator squad. For the bigger stuff, I take 2 preds decked out with lascannons for taking out the big stuff (monoliths and land raiders).
Also, it's good to note that possessed/chosed marines are all AUTOMATICALLY upgraded to sorceror status for ZERO extra points. Although it would be a big point sink, wouldn't it just be AWESOME to have a huge squad of possessed marines, give em daemonic flight, and give them all the 'gift of change' (also don't forget that they too automatically pass all psychic tests). Charge em' into something, and BAM, you got an army of chaos spawns (providing they dont just kill the enemy in the initial assault).
Being able to automatically pass a psychic test IS a big deal. It makes your magic very reliable. While your space marine librarian will most likely pass all tests too with his high ld, there will always be those random moments where you REALLY wanted to use fear of darkness, but that ONE time you just HAD to roll an 11. It happens. This also prevents Tzeentch from ever suffering a perils of the warp hit (which could REALLY hurt your AC with only one wound). Also, Tzeentch has wargear that gives negative leadership modifiers to other psykers on the board, which can really start to hurt, as your librarian will have, not only a greater chance to fail a pyschic test, but also won't be able to make his psychic hood work as often.
While Tzeentch doesn't have access to some of the high end daemons (bloodletters for example), we DO have access to flamers (something that is highly overlooked). Flamers of Tzeentch absolutely ROCK. They are all equipped with assault heavy bolters (the equivalent of those). A squad of 9 of those bad boys will rock even a space marine's world. And since they each have 2 wounds, its gonna take a little extra effort to take em out.
Think what you want, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but don't say we didn't warn you when you underestimate them (like I did the first time I fought them), and end up getting massacred.
My 40K Armies:
- Thousand Sons
- Mordian Imperial Guard
- Dark Eldar
My Fantasy Armies:
- Lhamian Vampire Counts
I'm considering playing Tzeentch as well, so I'm going to hop into the discussion with a question.
When people talk about Tzeentch (or any other Chaos army, really) they tend to focus on the list as if it will be Thousand Sons (or Death Guard, or whatever.) As far as I can tell, there's absolutely nothing preventing a player from taking a Lord with a Mark of Tzeentch, packing in the rubric/sorcerer troop choices, and then filling in elsewhere where you need. You lose the (potential) free AC and bonus to summoning, however you gain a lot of flexibility.
Is there anything particularly -wrong- with this approach? It was the one I was planning on doing, especially considering I do -not- find the Thousand Son models attractive. I realize that if you are MoT, you are Thousand Sons. I also like the flexibility of being able to bring some odd things to the mix.