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I dunno, I hear a lot of people give daemonic visage and similar powers to reuduce leadership, and there are certainly a ton of things that affect the LD. of your opponents, but do these things really make much difference in this game. I mean, most units are fearless or have something comparible. Even the MOCU gives you a reroll, and you have to be in a sorry state to fail that twice. Stuff like the needle of desire, opponent takes a ld. test and if he fails, he gets more wounds. But c'mon, any model with multiple wounds 9 times out of ten, even if they have to take a ld. test, they're not failing it. If they are cheap enough that they actually have sorry ld. then it's a waste to use an expensive power against, and if they are good enough to warrant the use of such power, they're probably fearless. Every time I look through the codex I just basically dismiss ld based powers as worthless.
Well LD has become more important so LD attacks have more effect. Agreed most of the time they are useless, but the abilities that are worth it are the ones that reduce LD, not things like "if they fail a LD test they are pinned" but things like "all models within 12" have -2 LD"- these are the powers that are worth it.
Imagine how awesome (for example) a librarian would be if he had an ability to make enemy models within 12" to have LD7? that would be worth it.
The other day i played a combat patrol against my friend my LatD vs my Daemonhunters but i was the LatD, its pretty suprising what Ld5-6 can hold out for mutants came back stomped those Grey Knights and went onto the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers.
Usually i kill more stuff by sweeping advance and chasing it off the table than with my actual weapons...
It is certainly correct that recently there has been a significant increase of fearless armies, but morale is still very powerful. Target priority is part of morale as well, just as a reminder...
Against some armies morale is less effective.. My army is immune to morale, for example.
However, not everyone plays chaos and necrons, and anything else can be moralified.. Even marines will not enjoy being pushed back across the table.
I love warp amps and daemonic visage myself.. awesomely effective in the right situation.
deamonic vissage can be partiicuarly usefull in CC. imagine, you have lost close coombat, and get LD modifiers which already s*cks, and on top of that your LD is decreased by 1 cause of visage. this will mean that the chance you fail your moraletest will be much bigger then to pass it.
How about taking it the other way, wouldn't it suck if you load your army up with things like D. visage and warp amps and you end up facing space wolves, that going to be a fair bit of points wasted.
So the LD reducing abilities are that fantastic most of the timebut what about LD increasing/ignoring abilities (fearless etc)? aren't they really good? and still fall under morale.
Wait, are space wolves fearless?
Kill Maim Burn
13th Company can be, but normal Wolves are not.Originally Posted by Kharne the Betrayer
Tell you what. Take your non-fearless army and go up against a Psychic Choir Tyranid list, and come back and tell me that morale is useless.
Morale is not useless. Any general that doesn't completely understand every aspect of the battle is destined to lose. Let's take an example - your standard Chaos Space Marine squad with no Marks versus my test subjects.
Leadship ten will pass their tests roughly 92% of the time. To be more accurate, they'll fail an average of one in twelve tests. Now, let's throw some modifiers at them. First, I'll take my squad and give them a simple upgrade - Daemonic Visage. Instead of passing on a 10, they now pass on a 9, failing an average of one in six rolls. That's a 100% increase in my odds, with a mere investment of two points. Sounds like a good deal to me.
Now, let's take a Statured Chaos Lord with Visage and throw that at the unit. Since he's a MC, it's easy to say he'll outnumber the squad. So all together they have a -3 to their morale check, which means testing on a seven. That is a 42% chance that they're going to fail that check. What did I invest? A few measly points for Visage. And if I went up against a fearless army? Oh well, I still have a Statured Prince running around destroying units.
Now, I understand your point. Fearless units are abound, and some armies are completely fearless. But how many outside of Chaos do you see? Tyranids are essentially fearless, but not totally. Orks can be, but there are ways around that.
Imperial Guard scatter at the first sign of modifiers. Necrons are destroyed in Close Combat if you can pull off a Sweeping Advance or two. Even the Emperor's Finest (Space Marines) can be routed with a few quick dice rolls.
My point is this - if you fail to look at all the options simply because you worrying about Fearless armies, then you're not looking at the entire picture. It's very much like saying "I'll never take meltaguns simply because I think they aren't good against Horde armies."
I agree. We had a 500pt tourney recently, and in 500 points my Death Guard can't field a whole lot of models! However, each one I could count on to the last, while one unit of Plague Marines shooting caused a Dark Eldar Warrior unit to run off the board in one turn (killed 3 out of 8 and they failed their test)! Chaos gets alot of fearless, but when you go up against Imperial Guard, its nice to be able to cut down the masses in sweeping advances instead of having to have to kill each and every one in combat! Now that I think about it, visage would be a good investment for my unit champions...
Kill Maim Burn