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Im still fairly new to 40k so I may just be asking a dumb question, but there are 2 guys I play with who play close combat nids. With my Khorn army, I cant get the upper hand. Both are CC armies, however the nids are superior with the genestealers and warriors (Higher init and rending claws) Ive tried taking furious charge to get over the init, but he just works me into position for him to make the charge, sicne I have MoK and have to advance, he will just kite me around till -he- can charge. Anyways, I am sure other World Eaters players will know all the problems I am running into. Please give me some advice, im like 1 - 100000 against these guys. Ouch, my pride...
I can't claim to be a WE expert, but I know for this kind of question that a basic breakdown of the forces involved. A detailed army list isn't necessary; just a list of squads.
Other than that, I can't be much help.
This is what I use, most of the time (Very brief)
-5 squads of 8 berserkers
-2 pred tanks heavy bolter sponsors and autocannon on top
-Chaos lord D-stature B-glaive all that jazz
-Defiler B-cannon Autocannon, Havoc launcher
Sorry to be so brief, but im writing a paper for school that is do in... Ohhh... 3 or so hours.
What sort of points does that make it, 1850?
That's a helluvalotta nids. What sort of composition do the nid players use? (Sorry, should have said that first) If I don't know what you need to kill I can't tell you how to.
Sorry type 4 squads of berserkers 1500 points. They play close combat nids. warriors and stealers with rending claws. Everything they have out inits me by at least one cept the gaunts and one carnifex. So the question is, if they strike first and have rending claws, their close combat is just far superior to mine. Is there any way a world eaters army can win? My berserkers just get eatin up so fast.
Hmm, I'm not a WE player, but what about trying to arrange your units with one a little ahead of all the others; something like the below (units 1, 2, 3):
Edit: Added periods to preserve spacing and then for spelling
That way the front unit may still not be able to get the charge, but hopefully your other units would be able to. I've never had to content with Blood Frenzy though, so the above suggestion may be completely unworkable.
Another idea, how about putting your squads in Rhinos? You'd probably have to hope they didn't roll extra movement due to Blood Frenzy and have to disembark, but otherwise the up to 12 inch move a turn (with no restrictions on where you move) should help you get the charge and the Rhinos could possibly be used after the fact for controlling your opponents movement for a change.
Finally, this idea is really cheap (in my opinion at least), but you could always try buying Rhinos for each of your squads and then using them to corall your Berserkers at the board edge; if there's no space between the Rhinos then they won't be able to be forced to move into charge range for the 'nids and. Your two Predators should be able to do some real damage to the 'nids while the plod across the board to your Rhino Ring and once the Tyranids do reach the Rhinos you will get the charge (either because they charged and destroyed the Rhinos, or because you moved them out of the way in your movement phase). Like I said, this is a pretty cheap strategy and very much not in the spirit of World Eaters, but hey, sometimes you just need a win. :-)
Hope any of that helps.
Last edited by destp; March 13th, 2006 at 16:50.
Thousand Sons ~2750 points | Eldar ~1000 points
Tzeentch Daemons ~2000 points
A Tyranid assault army is very tough for WE to handle. WE are great in cc, but a stealer/warrior heavy nid army is better. But it should be possible for you to swing the battle in your favor. A few things to keep in mind:
1. Cut down stealer squads a bit and a squad of berzerkers should be able to handle them. 10 genestealers will kill anything, 3-5 can be dealt with with far less trouble. Rending claws work best when you can assault and have a huge number of attacks and thus blast through the unit you assault. 4 stealers will statistically "only" rend twice on the charge and deal a couple more wounds that might be saved. An 8 man berzerker squad should then be able to deal with the survivors. You don't need for your predators to whipe out each and every squad of stealers. cut them down to size and they lose most of their oomph.
2. Furious charge will not let you beat stealers when it comes to cc. And since nids are so fast you are likely to get assaulted yourself and thus gain no bonus from it. All you get is more expensive marines. Forget about beating their initiative. Use the points on pimping out your champs.
3. Flesh hounds might be an option since they are cheaper than berzerkers and have an invulnerable save. Since they are also summoned they have a better chance of getting the charge.
4. When at all possible use overwhelming force. As soon as you are in cc you should try to get another squad of berzerkers or bloodletters to join the fight. The goal here is to not get bogged down in drawn out combats, but blast through the stealer squads as fast as possible.
5. A Khorne lord with "all that jazz" will usually die in one round to an assault from genestealers. Sad but true. Its amazingly difficult to make an expensive model earn his points back against rending claws. Actually I think its just about impossible. Use a dirt-cheap lord and use the points on your champs. They cannot be singled out in cc and can thus really earn the points back.
6. Hidden powerfists are fantastic in this kind of battle. Pimp out your champs with fist, mutation, spiky bits. let the stealers rip some berzerkers apart and then deliver 5-6 powerfist attacks and win the combat.
If the radiance of a thousand suns
Were to burst at once into the sky,
That would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...
I am become Death,
The shatterer of Worlds.
Wow. All fantastic ideas. Thanks a ton for the info, and that hiding in the rhino thing so I dont have to charge... Hilarious. I never would have thought of that. Its just so crazy I will have to try it. I will be toning down my demon prince with "all that jazz" to up the champs. Thanks a ton guys. Ill report back to let you know how it went.
Nids vs. WE ...I feel your pain. In my local game group we kicked off a new leuge season and the first fight I took the battle to the nids player ( He is the reigning champ from the last few seasons) just to show how tough my WE's were. It was like diving head first into a wood chipper ow! I mean really Ow!
My advice. Preds with ac, hvy bltr sponsons and havoc launchers 140 pt bringer of death to squishy bugs. The genstealers are simply to nasty in cc so shoot the heck out of them.
You will probably loose the charge so take counter charge as a vet skill more of your boys will get to fight in cc. Arm the squad leader with a pf to buy some time for the payback train. Stay with cheap troops and deamons soup up a Deamon prince and mabey a BT.
A smart nids player will use your rage against you so bring weight of numbers with you.
good luck &Godspeed
Last edited by Adeptjosh; April 16th, 2006 at 21:26.
Thought for the day: A Burning Heretic , Will brighten the Decor of any room.