Thousand Sons vs. DH and Tau - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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  1. #1
    One Awesome Dude hotspike18's Avatar
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    Thousand Sons vs. DH and Tau

    Ok, I'm looking for some detailed or general tips on taking down Tau and Daemonhunters (Grey Knights to be specific).

    I've fought Grey Knights several times, and I'm still having a hard time. My psychic powers often get nulled, they can outshoot me easily, and take away my shooting advantages when they deep strike. I think Bolt of Change is our only power immune to the Aegis rules. And the only thing I've come up with that actually improve my results dramatically is the use of a defiler, which has now inclined my opponent to Deep Strike just about everything. And I have a very difficult time killing his Grand Master in a 1000 Point battle. I don't have to room for a retinue, and my Lord has to go solo, which is bad, considering how force weapons annihilate him before he attacks usually.

    As far as Tau, I have no idea how dangerous they can be, but it sounds pretty nasty. In small battles, I'll have to use Rhinos I guess. (Chosen are hard to work in at 1000 because of the HQ rule) Any tips are welcome.

    Right now, my army list consists of (usually) [1,000 Points]
    Chaos Lord or LT (L-Claws, BoC, Termi Armor)
    2x Favored Units of Sons (Champ with Boc, Powerfist, Meltabombs)
    Defiler (Indirect Upgrade)
    Dreadnought (TL-Lascannon)

    Thanks guys!

    "If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."

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  3. #2
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    Well, you're in the unfortunate position that Daemonhunters are pretty much designed to combat Chaos. They wound on a 2+, counter about half of your psychic powers on a whim, and can Deep Strike to avoid your long range firepower. Usually the greatest benefit is that you outnumber them, but since you're playing Tzeentch, that's not likely to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by «hô*šÞìkë18»
    I think Bolt of Change is our only power immune to the Aegis rules.
    Why is that? In fact, Bolt of Change is affected by the Aegis rules. It targets a squad of Grey Knights, so they're allowed to use the Aegis.

    However, Winds of Chaos does not require a target. Read it very, very carefully and you'll see that it simply says to place the template and any models under it suffer a wound. There's no targeting required. However, I must warn you - this is extremely cheap and a major loophole. I would not recommend using this form of attack in a friendly game, as it twists the rules nearly to the point of breaking.

    Can't help you with the Tau yet, as I haven't had a chance to play against them yet.

    As far as Tau, I have no idea how dangerous they can be, but it sounds pretty nasty. In small battles, I'll have to use Rhinos I guess. (Chosen are hard to work in at 1000 because of the HQ rule) Any tips are welcome.


  4. #3
    Member Heksanol's Avatar
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    I have also started wondering how a TS army can beat a pure Daemonhunter army, and so far it seems it’s not worth it to use TS against DH, especially if your opponent knows you will play TS.

    It is just sickening to know that there is an army that is geared towards being anti-chaos, anti-daemon and anti-psyker.

    The only worthwhile advice I can think of is the following:

    Dreadnaught with mutated hull. Yes, you will have the DH abilities against you, but if you can charge a GK squad successfully, you can keep that squad busy for a few rounds, inflicting power fist damage. Only the Justicar will be able to harm the dreadnaught, if your opponent gave him another weapon like power fists, thunderhammer etc, which they usually don’t.

    A favored TS squad shouldn’t have that much difficulty taking care of a GK squad who has fewer models. Use the rubric marines as meat shields and let the AC hack away. Also, maybe give the AC gift of chaos – yes, you have to roll of to see if the power goes through (you still have a better leadership than the justicar), and he can save it on a 4+, but there is a chance it will go through.

  5. #4
    Spiky MindRaked's Avatar
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    Against DH

    You seem to be able to predict your opponent's actions, this is a good thing. Now you have to use it at your advantage.

    1- It may seems strange, but a defiler can lock a unit in close combat. This may buy you some time.

    2- The dread is excellent in close combat, but not that good alone, you have to support it with your other TS units. I'm not sure about the TL Lascannon, maybe you should switch to plasma cannon an kill more DH each turns.

    3- If your opponent use no tank, you should replace the powerfists with power weapons and daemonic strength, this will allow you more kills as you may strike in initiative order instead of last.

    4- Why to use a lord when you only need a lieutenant ? Don't pay for L. Claws, use power weapons or daemon weapons instead. Why not use a daemon prince with a dreadaxe (no save at all). This should be enough to kill his most dangerous unit.

    I'll think about it.

    TAU

    Rhino is the best solution, or you might use the Rubrik terminators / chosen terminators squads in deep strike. Don't bother about giving them psychic power, all you need is power weapon and may be a chain fist. Go in close, blast the big guns, and slowly kill every single models.
    MindRaked
    CHAOS Undiv.: won 14/22 games EC: 4/7 WE: 6/9 DG: 10/15, TS: 3/7 Orks : 13/20 SM NL : 1/6 TAU: 14 of 24 IG: 3/7

  6. #5
    Senior Member Ubernyaw's Avatar
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    grey knights have a major problem fighting armor, so perhaps clogging the field with as much things with an AV as possible (although, in 1000 points, I'm not sure how much you could get). But maybe if you're really reaching for a solution, try proxying a land raider... and watch as he absolutely can't hurt it. My GK friend is constnatly moaning about what a hard time he has wiping out armor. Maybe also try putting on possession and parasite to keep it perpetually rolling forward in case he brings in IST's with melta guns or some such. You could load up the LRC with some sort of cc nastiness, and disgorge it into his lines.

    as for tau... well, to fight tau you either need big, huge, guns or speed. Rhino's could help to the 2nd end, but then again, Tau have absolutely no problem fighting armor, so those rhino's may be dead before you knew what happened. So perhaps bringing some big guns? A defiler or two (or three) could help massively to that end. Our group's tau player often plays his little brother, who relies on preds and a defiler to do his dirty work, and he simply couldn't deal with all the exploding.

    hope that helps
    "And any man who comes through this fight mostly unharmed will be my sister! It'll be free frocks and jollies for ever, you'll see!"
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  7. #6
    One Awesome Dude hotspike18's Avatar
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    Thank for the advice and KEEP IT COMING!

    The main problem I faced my last game, was that he figured out how to bypass a lot of my advantages. He brought two Dreads and deep strikes everything for the exception of two 5-Man units of IST's. He got first chance to shoot and killed my armor. And his men were in assault by turn two. I'm still working on a decent counter for the drop in your face list...
    "If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."

  8. #7
    Senior Member Ubernyaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by «hô*šÞìkë18»
    Thank for the advice and KEEP IT COMING!

    The main problem I faced my last game, was that he figured out how to bypass a lot of my advantages. He brought two Dreads and deep strikes everything for the exception of two 5-Man units of IST's. He got first chance to shoot and killed my armor. And his men were in assault by turn two. I'm still working on a decent counter for the drop in your face list...
    I take it the dreads had lascannons? The best way to nullify the advantage of deep strike is to keep your army fairly together, so that when he does deepstrike, he's got to face the full fury of your army, rather then just shoot at isolated squads. So, when he does show up, he'll get shot to pieces by your whole force, and won't get to assault.
    "And any man who comes through this fight mostly unharmed will be my sister! It'll be free frocks and jollies for ever, you'll see!"
    - Rome: Total War

    my armies
    9th Black Watch (Imperial Guard) 4000 points
    Red Corsairs of Khorne 2000 points
    Space Wolves 13th Company 2000 points

  9. #8
    Librarian from Hell Andusciassus's Avatar
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    746 (x8)

    Plasma cannon is great against deep strikers, as is the big one (Defiler). The Rubric Terminators are also nice to use against all non-fisting SMs, those 2W is annoying to say the least and the power weapons they carry will eat through GK-squads, especially if they come with a tooled up champion. (Extra CCW, D.mut, mastercrafted, spikybitz and Daemonic strength)

    Against Tau I must recommend the Flamers, S5 AP4, 27 such shots in a turn makes those fire warriors history. And though they do have some awful weapons most of them are but S7 or lower, which means no instakill- that's fun.

    Let the Defiler take out the Battle Suits.

    Doombolt is good against Tau, I might add, even on Champs or HQs.
    Check with your friends if it's OK for you to use Chosen of Ahriman(Chapter Approved spec. characters that needs opponents permission), they will make your army much more mobile.
    I'm working on a Biker-Lord for my Sons to use against Tau, I'll get back about him when I've tried him out. but I think he'll work.

    Thousand Sons are even more tricky to play in low points-games as they are so expensive.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Terzo's Avatar
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    The main problem I faced my last game, was that he figured out how to bypass a lot of my advantages. He brought two Dreads and deep strikes everything for the exception of two 5-Man units of IST's. He got first chance to shoot and killed my armor. And his men were in assault by turn two. I'm still working on a decent counter for the drop in your face list...
    He didn't deepstrike the dreads as well, did he? Only Grey Knights selected as fast attack, Grey Knight Termies, and Inquisitors in Power Armor can deep strike. So at the very least his dreads will have to start with the IST.

    Second, how did he get into assault by turn two? The earliest he can deep strike is turn two, and you cant assault the same turn as deepstriking.

    I can't think of much to actually counter him with though...it sounds like a rough battle.

  11. #10
    Senior Member greymeister's Avatar
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    You have to think of it this way:

    1) For every grey knight they have, you can afford a rubric marine
    2) Your rubric marines have 2 wounds, they have one
    3) You both have 3+ saves
    4) You are both fearless


    Add these up and CC with a AC with powerfist should equate you to winning combat as well as causing wounds to them (a 6 man rubric squad with AC is a 2-1 outnumber of a 5 man Grey Knight Squad). Only the justicar ignores armor, the rest are just high strength. I see no reason why 1k Sons should have a problem with GK in Power armor. They can shoot 2 shots at 24" and you can shoot 1 shot plus a bolt of change (50% chance of not going off but might as well take it). They get twice as many shots and you have twice as many wounds...I think I'd rather have the wounds.

    You say he deepstrikes everything? Baloney, those count as fast attacks when you do that. and he still needs units on the ground, whether they are marines or storm troopers. Kill that stuff and then whatever deepstrikes is next.

    If you come across the Terminators, they are indeed very tough, but also VERY costly in points. I wouldn't worry too much about them, try to whittle them down a bit from fire or just send in a dreadnought. They might kill it but They'll need 6's to glance it in combat, whereas it needs 2s to force an invulnerable save. I would usually say go with Demon prince and stature and dread axe, but alot of Demonhunter stuff punishes things classified as demons so stay away from that and use a lieutenant, maybe with a kai gun to change things up

    I don't mean to sound like it is easy to beat them but it always was. I always had defiler, dreadnought and predator with lascannons/heavy bolters and then as many rubric squads of 9 that I could fit in, and slaughtered GK armies.
    Last edited by greymeister; April 4th, 2006 at 23:50.
    Karnov let all of us fulfil our repressed dreams of being a fat Russian man running around in the great outdoors and getting shot at by weird stone heads and crap. You didn't have a repressed fantasy about doing such marvelous things? Well, I don't believe you . . . [djpretzel]

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