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well after a bunch of games with my new tzeentch i have a total differnt view on the army and how to play them.
So i have a few questions on how you play YOUR army.
1) Daemon Prince doesnt seem worth it, better to take LoC or a lord with chaos gifts ( ie. +1str and 1+ t )
2) Tzeentch daemons arent really worth the pts, flamers are 23 pts and die super fast, normal tzeentch marines are only a bit more $$ and are more verstile, harder to kill and have 3+ save.
3) put as many troops in rhinos as you can. ( so far if i play 1500 pts i play 2 walking 1 rhino and if more then 1500 i put half and half. ie. 1850pts 2 rhinos 2 walking... BUT im thinking 75% of troops should be in rhinos. ie. 1 walking 2 in rhinos, or 1 walking 3 in rhinos.
4) heavies are your friend... take preds or defilers, dreads have weak army and 95% of the time wont get into HTH. preds are more verstile, can be cheaper, more armor. i take 2 las preds and 1 auto/bolter one. defliers only seem worth it in 2's mainly.
5) tzeentch spells = BoC and WoC.. nothing else really stands out or worth the points in the end.
6) fit as many thralls in as you can!!!
I also have a question about putting a Sorc in a rhino with BoC.... if it moves 12" can the sorc still cast its spell? even if the rhino shot smoke???
I may still be relatively new, but based on my games I really disagree witht his statement. I can see taking a spell focused Lord or Lt working really well, but in general I've actually had tremendous luck with my statured Daemon Prince. He's a god a close combat and a great distraction for my opponents (as they've seen what it can do). I especially like him more then Lord of Change (in most cases), as the lord of change costs you an AC to bring out (I've actually wondered about if it's legal to have a Lt be the Daemon Host, just to keep from losing an AC).Originally Posted by hardcastle
As to the second point, I think Flamers are very much worth it. Sure, they can die quick, especially in close combat, but they can do some amazing damage before then. I've found that taking a couple squads of Flamers (which are usually about 50-75 points cheaper then a Rubric squad) to have worked extremely well; they're not as indestructable as the rubric squads, but they manage to do far more damage in the time that they stay alive and there's something wonderful about half your army appearing on the table mid game that seems to really dishearten opponents. Use them for their amazing shooting while you can, and then charge them off into combat to hold up an important unit while they die.
Anyways, these have been my experiences with Daemon Princes and Flamers. My opinion may be biased as I really love daemons and my success with them may in part be due to the people I regularly face. Cheers.
Thousand Sons ~2750 points | Eldar ~1000 points
Tzeentch Daemons ~2000 points
ya but with flamers and there BS they wont be hitting much. even in groups of 9 and 27 shots. half will miss then what 30% wont wound, and then most armies ( i play against allot of power armor ) will get full saves. and soon after they do there attack, the oppenot will have as many str 6+ weapons and heavy bolters pointed at them, and they will fall.... and fall FAST.
as for the DP... i can make a lord thats cheaper, and almost as good ( +1 t and +2str ) and can be hidden in a rhino. and will have a full squad of marines ( and a hidden PF ) to back him up.
I love my Flamers, thoough I will not bring them to all my battles. If I know I'll be facing a lot of 3+ saves I might leave them. But then again there is "always" some scouts or Scoutbikers (hate scoutbikers) that you can wipe out. They are also very good against transports (Rhino comes to mind) and walkers such as Sentinels or even a Dread if they get behind it.
The summoning can also wreck any plan the opponant has which is mighty nice.
On the HQ I can but agree, the huge Lords tend to die fast but the LoC will go even faster and take a Champ with him. Most of the time I use a Bolt of Changin Lt or some Chosen of Ahriman (Yes I have nice friends). The Rubrics can handle themself in CC- those Champs are some wicked Librarians.
If you are going for a CC-HQ the un-statured ones can buy the Terminator armour and that's quite a deal, good saves and extra attack.
Your Spell analysis is good but I would like to add Gift of Chaos to the list. The ability to snipe hidden powerfists can make all the difference. Not to mention them extra S5 attacks and the sheer Terror-bonus. Nobody wants to contribute to the opponents army.
I havent had a chance to use the LoC yet. i tried using him last game but i crushed the ork army by turn 2 and he gave up lol.
He fits nicely so far in my 1850 Army, and trying to see if hes going to be worth it in my 1500 pt army. I was on the recieving end of a BT with my ig army and he really impressed me, of course he had support but so would my LoC. Yes losing a AC with a power fist does suck BUT getting a GD out way out weighs that problem. also dont forget, you can give the vessel a power weapon and if he doenst release the daemon he stikes @ str 6.... can be really tough since he cant be singled out and you also have your LORD in that unit too with STR 6.
basically im trying to get down 1 solid 1850 army list ( which i have done ) and then 2 1500 pts list, one with LoC and one with out. ill post them in a bit and see what everyone thinks.
Last edited by hardcastle; April 5th, 2006 at 23:34.
You're forgetting the best part of Tzeentch of all, Rubic Termies yo. They rock! 2 wounds with their saves? w00t. They have statistical advantage above most units. Of course their points against elder though, but against the majority of other armies they are godlike, with fists and reaper cannons. oh mamma, I am still pondering whether i should just make my black legion termies rubic, because of their advantage.
Lictor, you are forgetting that Rubric's cannot upgrade their weapons, so no Reapers or Power Fists. The Champ is still a sorcerer though.
EDIT: But indeed those Rubric terminators are awsome. Keep them away from other Terminators (Fear the Fists) and watch them work.
ya the thing with termis, is there COST and they only have storm bolters.... id rather spend the points on more marines AND i dont have the models
Last edited by hardcastle; April 6th, 2006 at 20:56.
Pish-mosh, the AC can have a Fist and psyhic power. Regular termies aleast have powerweapons.
They actually have Combi-bolters they are better at close range then the Stormbolter, not quite as good at longer range though.Originally Posted by hardcastle
The three really good things with the Terminators are
1) Deep strike, that's a good way of getting where you want. Or close enough anyway. It almost reminds of mobility
2) The Saves, the wounds & the durability.
3) Powerweapons. It's a great contribution in CC.
Combine this with a good Champ and you have one of the hardest units in the game.
I waited a long time before I used them the first time, but now I'm in love. (It's a platonic love I assure you)