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Currently, my force is pretty much infantry based. I do occasionally run a rhino (biggest waste of points ever, gets blown up in the first or second turn, pinning and wounding the troops inside and slowing them down - not to mention no more charging from a tank means they get rapid fired to death as soon as they unload) and sometimes a Defiler (just because its cool, and if it lives it can cause some serious hurt). But I get the feeling that armoured vehicles are far too fragile. Maybe its because I use so few that my opponant can concentrate fire on them too easily.
Does anyone have any advice regarding Vehicles? I am thinking of picking up a Predetor, or even a land raider stuffed full of chosen to add a little bit of a kick to my force. Currently my heavy support consists of the Defiler, and a squad of tank hunting autocannon havocs.
Im a little confused to say the least.
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vhehicals can be very usefull when used properly. Keep them out of sight close to cover and don't be afraid to back them up or move them to saftey ,during a normal turn. tanks and such are great but you must be aware that they are big targets and vunerable to anti tank weapons. I recomend preds
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I think you've pretty much got it.. Armoured vehicles can be quite fragile, but as you pointed out, taking very few of them is generally a recipie for them being shot down. The way to do it is to integrate them into a strategy.
For example, if you're using rhinos, take bikes as well, or raptors, or an infiltating, speeding daemon prince. If your opponent is panicking because of fast units heading towards his lines, or because his best shooting squad has been jumped on by an 10 foot monster he might forget to target the potentially even more dangerous rhinos and their precious cargo of goodness.
You can also be clever about fielding rhinos. If you're sticking your possessed in one, for example, take another two rhinos with regular squads in and roll them alongside. If you're devious, you can swap them around between battles (though make sure you know which is which.. using scraps of paper and placing them under the rhino works well.) If your opponent knows he only has a one in three chance of targetting your nastiest unit, that's a bit demoralizing, he might not even bother.
Also, you don't need to charge from the vehicle.. Drive the rhino up close to the enemy, and disembark on the other side from them. Voila, you have a nice AV11 shield to soak up a few shots (remember that even if it blows up, the wreckage blocks LoS like most difficult terrain) if the rhino survives, roll it out of the way (or into another unit for a tank shock) and charge.
Anyway, I'm a fan of vehicles provided they're used as part of a bigger strategy. Not everyone likes them, it's fine to build an army without them, but I wouldn't say they're a waste of points by any stretch of the imagination.
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; April 15th, 2006 at 16:11.
If you field one or two vehicles then yes, they are to die soon.
This since every heavy weapon in the opponent army will be pointing their way.
But if you field a Landraider and two Rhinos, the rhinos might well survive long enough to deliver their troops.
I use vehicles but I don't expect them to survive, even the very mutated and possessed Pred goes after a couple of turns.
Personally, I think vehicles are good options, and I usually have at least one. Generally, If I take a vehicle, I try to take more then one. This is because with one armoured vehicle on the field, most weapons seem to be aimed at it.
About your problem with them being destroyed so easily, use cover if at all possible. That way it will less likely being destroyed. Also, some upgrades to help it stay alive can help as well - smoke launchers, being a cheap one.
I'll go over the vehicles quickly, and state how I use mine and what upgrades I give them.
Transport: Chaos Rhino
The Chaos Rhino is the basic transport of the Chaos army. I usually use it to transport Possessed, or Chaos Space Marine troops. It's a cheap transport, and one of the vehicles I use more often then the other ones in the Chaos army. The upgrades I take are Daemonic Possession, and Smoke Launchers. Sometimes in larger games, or if I have the pts, I'll take Parasitic Possession, or Mutated Hull. These all make it more survivable.
When I use the Rhino, I usually stick a squad in there, and give it a purpose. If its a shooty squad. I move it forward into position, let out the squad, and pop smoke if I end up in enemy sites. For a assault squad, I move up and get into position, and I do either 1. Let out the squad behind cover, and if possible hide the RHino behind cover as well so next turn the squad can assault, or 2. Let out the squad behind the Rhino, and pop smoke. That way they are shielded behind the Rhino, and can assault next turn.
This is the main battle tank for Chaos Space Marines. It can be equipped for anti-infantry, or anti-tank. For anti-infantry, I usually give it turret autocannon, and side heavy bolters. I always add on Smoke Launchers, and sometimes the other options that I mentioned for the Rhino. I often times use a predator. It's a powerful tank, and with Mutated Hull it can have 14 front armour. I also sometimes give it Parasitic Possession, so if I get a weapon destroyed I can attempt to repair it.
Personally, I don't like the Chaos Dreadnought. To me its not reliable, due to its special rules. However, if you do take one, you want to have a mix of close combat and shooting. This is because you don't know what its gonna do. For upgrades, I always give it Smoke Launchers.
Chaos Land Raider
This is one of my favorite tanks, because it adds a psychological effect, and its very powerful in the game although it's expensive. Therefore, I only reccomend it in larger games where you can afford the points. When I take it, I usually have it transport something. Usually an assault squad so I can take advantage of being able to assault straight out of the Land Raider. It also has a lot of firepower.
Again, personally I don't like the Defiler, but it works great for a lot of people. For me its either hit or miss. Sometimes it'll make its points back and more, and sometimes it won't destroy a thing. The only upgrade I give to it when I use one, is Indirect Fire. I just sit behind terrain, and shoot away. Some people walk it forward to get into close combat, but I think that's a bad idea. It's not that good in assault even though it counts as a MC in assault. I just keep mine back, and shoot away.
I'm pretty sure you can't have Demonic Possession on a vehicle and still use it as a trasnsport.
In small games, when vehicles are too costly to field in mass how do you keep a lone rhino charging? I'm using bikers, obliterators and rubric marines so I hope there are enough targets for heavys to spare the rhino from too much interest.
Unfortunately not, the description of daemonic possession states that all the hatches and exits are sealed, and that the vehicle can no longer be used as a transport. It would be a great option for a transport, but I guess that's why they saw fit to limit it in this manner.Originally Posted by Grim Psyker
I don't like the land raider myself, simply because its weapon options (long range lascannons and heavy bolters) do not match its transport role at all. You can either sit it at the back and make full use of its weapons, or you can roll it forward, not both.
The Land Raider Crusader, on the other hand, is a great tank in my opinion, but sadly we servants of the ruinous powers don't get them. Oh well, we have many other options.
I also disagree on dreadnoughts being unreliable. Even a dreadnought which is specifically tooled for CC or shooting only has a one in 6 chance of doing what you don't want it to do, counterbalanced by a 1 in 6 chance of gaining a nice bonus in doing what you want it to do. Considering the average game is only 6 turns, that's hardly too much of a chore.
Personally, I feel if you want a long range dreadnought, you might be better off with a predator. Still, dreadnoughts are good, versatile, and look awesome (provided you don't use the terrible current model.)
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; April 17th, 2006 at 21:38.
i agree vehicles are too fragile for their points and the weapons they can shoot.
especially with the tons of heavy weapons options available to most armies.
i think the ratio of heavy weapons availability to vehicles is unrealistic,
would any army really have potentially an sixth to eight of their units dedicated to anti armor? yet thats what you see alot. my suggestion would be to make anti armor weapons much more rare.
Taking no vehicles is an intersting tacticval choice because it may mean your opponent has just wastedhowever many points on melta bombs lascannons etc that they can't really use so effectivly.
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Well, about the Dreadnought, I guess its just a personal thing. I don't like them much, and rather use a differnet unit that can fulfil the same purpose, better. However, that's just me, and I'm sure the Dreadnought works well for other people and armies.