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Which are better for anti tank, 5 Havoks or a predator? And which squad setup/vehical setup should pure anti tank be?
Rork: In the dark future of the 41st millennium there is only friendship.
Fenrir: and magic.
Kaiser-: My Little Chaos Marine, Friendship is Heresy?
Five havocs aren't really worthwhile. Best to take double the marines as you have heavy weapons for safety. The benefit to having Marines be your anti-tank is the fact that they're much harder to remove from the table, but you give that up if you take minimum sized squads.
Havocs armed with 4x Autocannons and Tank Hunters are the bane of any tank with an AV13 or lower. They're also extremely useful against infantry. All around, there some of the best units, and one of my favourites.
Missile Launchers are a decent choice, performing better against AV14 vehicles than ACs, but less so against others. The upside is that they wreck models with a 3+ armour save.
The best thing about a Predator is that it is somewhat mobile. A true anti-tank Predator (Lascannons all around) has to stay rooted if it wants to fire all it's weaponry (much like the Havoc squad), but has the benefit of being able to fire the TLLC if it needs to relocate. Havocs can't boast that. Another thing is the Predator is usually cheaper, and it can't be locked in combat by a quick charging unit. However, the Predator is often times much easier to destroy.
The point of my ramblings is this - if you have a mostly infantry army, take Havocs, but boost their numbers. If you have other tanks in your army, go with the Predator. A lone Predator in a list is rarely worthwhile.
It depends, really.
If you take a predator, it can be destroyed by a single lucky shot, but Havocs can't. Also, Predators get pricey.
If you're going for a Black Legion army, and not a Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch/Slaanesh army, then I would advise you take Havocs.
A good option would be 2 Autocannons, and 2 Lascannons. That is pretty pricey, but combine it with the Tank Hunters veteran skill, it becomes extremely effective against everything.
Hope that helps.
EDIT: Lousy Caluin, with your uber-fast posting skills.
Wow, 2 minutes in it!
Anyway, I haven't got either (yet) and I as well was wondering that question.
I think probably Havocs, although it is very close. Mainly because of the (slight) diversity and that they acn't die in one lucky shot.
And Caluin, why is one Predator pointless? Should I get two or three? And should thye have the same weapon combo or different ones?
Priority of targets. It's not just the Predator - it's any vehicle.Originally Posted by PaRaSiTe_X92
For instance, say your opponent purchases a Devestator squad full of Lascannons. What are they going to shoot at? The Predator, because it's the quickest thing to destroy and stands to do the most amount of damage.
However, let's say you've bought three Predators and a few Rhinos as well. Now you have upwards of five vehicles on the board, and your opponent is forced to choose. Down a Predator and hinder your shooting a little bit? Take out the Rhinos first, and let the Predators fire unharmed? Tough choices.
Now, this isn't always the case. For instance, in 500 points, you can get away with a single vehicle simply because you won't expect that much anti-tank to be present.
Personally as a long-term player I swear by Havocs due to their flexibility raging from the missile equipped support squads already mentioned to this odd little number.
10 Havocs: x6 bolt pistol and close combat weapon, x 4 flamers in a Rhino
Last used that against a Tyranid Swarm army, its effectiveness was not displeasing. The look on my opponents face was certainly memorable.
Yeah it really depends on what you are coming up against and the points that ou have available, if you have heaps of points a mutated pred with possession and 3 x las cannons is a good option, still able to move and fire, or stand still and unleash hell. It is also handy to have a squad of 10 havocs with 4 x las cannons and tank hunter, but you cant move it and it deploys early, so it really depends on the effect you are after. as people have mentioned the Autocannon tank hunter can be effective as you can hurt hordes as well as AV13 and lower.
Small havocs are useless as they will lose heavy weapons to the fire superiority rules, i will just hit you with heavy bolters until all the las cannons are gone. Another thing to consider with the havocs is that you can use cover saves to make them far more survivialable than a Pred that can die to just one lascannon or rail gun. So in essence you have to consider you list on the whole and work out what you have in the way of anti tank. heavy weapons in troops is a better way to deal with tanks cos the weapons are cheaper and you deploy them later.
Happy to har your thoughts on this though.
Caluin you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too good. How long have you been playing Chaos? Did you actually invent them?
Anyway, thanks. In a 1000pt army, I take it that it is OK to have a indirect bassie and a defiler, or should I get more?
I still think it's best to get some of each. Mainly depending on your enemies army obviously.