Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I'm playing the store manager of my local GW tonight using the new Cityfight rules. He's using a Black Templar list and I think he'll be using a lot of Land Raider/Terminators.
I'm playing with my Thousand Sons Chosen of Ahriman. I don't have a lot of models, so I'm taking what I've got - bearding it up - and running with it for a laugh.
Here's what I've got:
Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Tzeentch
Power Weapon/Plasma Pistol
Personal Icon, Melta Bombs, Spiky Bits
D. Aura, D. Strength, D. Resilience, D. Essence, D. Speed
3 Thrall Wizards
Familiar, Wind of Chaos, Bolt of Change
3 Chosen of Ahriman
Bolt Pistol/Power Weapon
Personal Icon, Melta Bombs, Spiky Bits
D. Strength, D. Resilience, D. Essence
3 Thrall Wizards each
Familiar, Wind of Chaos
(3 Horrors, 2 Flamers)
(3 Horrors, 2 Flamers)
This comes in at 1000pts or so. I realise this list is hardly competitive, but I'm going to try to make it work for a laugh.
The Black Templars have their "Abhor the Witch" rule which effectively give them a 5+ save vs any Psyker powers - is this a big problem considering all my thralls whereupon i can re-use them?
Am I relying too much on one Bolt of Change and 4 Melta bombs to take out any Land Raiders?
My main tactics are to Key (Deep Strike) the 3 Chosen to seperate corners of the battlefield (it's a 4x8 foot table) hoping this will force him to seperate his units. I can then Key all Chosen to one of the edges and overwhelm the Land Raider/Squad there using Daemon summons.
Tactics with the Chosen are to use the Key to deep strike and summon Daemons directly after. If I'm in range with the Chosen, use Wind of Chaos. Assault with Daemons to stop the BT unit assaulting me and hold them up.
Each of the Chosen can re-roll one Power Weapon attack per turn. They've got a few wounds each and can Melta Bomb any vehicles. Wind of Chaos should help against large Terminator/Crusader squads.
The Lord should be able to soak up a lot with a high toughness, high wounds, and invulnerable save. Daemonic Speed should get him to where he wants to go quick enough.
Is it even possible to win with this list? Hopefully, by splitting his forces up and overwhelming the seperate squads I should be able to handle it.
Any advice? Thanks!
Last edited by Caluin; June 6th, 2006 at 16:48.
first of your not aloud to post any stat lines on the forums read the forum rules first becasue GW has a copywrigth on that stuf you not aloud to post the stats. next are you sure you opponent will give you permission to use they key? as it's not in the codex it's chapter approved you will have to ask if he will let you use it. next where are all your thousand sons! they are the backbone of the sons and you don''t have any? i would drop the chosen as they can't take essence by th way only lords and the chosen are more than half your forcez i would nto take that tactic in mind as if they deep strike in the wrong place or off the board your dead. next your lord should drop the plasma pistol as he wont have much time to fie it with d.speed and it can end up killing you. next i'm not sure about this but i think if you take thralls you can't use d.speed as the thralls can't keep up a rules confirmation would be good on this as i am not sure. i would sugest to get some sons as templars are nice up colse multiple wounds is very nice just don't forget to take an ac with either bolt of change and a power fist/bolt pistol to take the those servant's of the false emporer down!i also might think about dropping the daemons and gettign some heavy suport in the form of a pred or dread with lascannons to take down the vehicles and stuff. good luck though and may the dark gods of chaos be with you!
It doesn't think, it doesn't feel,
It doesn't laugh or cry.
All it does, from dusk 'till dawn,
Is make the soldiers die.
Commander Cyrus's Black Legion. W1/D0/L1
Sorry friend I think you are doomed.
If this is all you have, no Sons, no Rubric Terminators...no nothing.
A handfull of daemons ain't gonna hurt him, neither are the Winds of Chaos. BTW, you'll have to deepstrike way to close to his troops for comfort to use wind.
I'd say go all Bolt of Change and keep them daemons in one squad, it still ain't big enough to last but you might have time to shoot some of those shots.
Have your Chosens shoot at anything that aint a Raider ASAP. Wait as long as possible to teleport. Stand shoot, stand shoot stan, shoot and then away! Reapeat.
He'll be in his tanks for the first round (maybe two rounds) make sure the lascans won't get you.
Make that lord of yours into a CC-monster. Give him Gift of Chaos instead of Wind.
Give him Darkblade and drop that plasmapistol. They are not allowed (ok allowed but so unrecommendable I wish to forbid them) on any Sorcerer with Bolt of Change.
Give all and everyone D.aura, that's really important.
This Lord could make good use of a Daemonic Rune too.
The thralls will make him move like normal infantery, remember that
And please tell the manager that if you are bringing 4 models and 10 daemons to a 1000pts game he could very well chose something but the "abhore the witch", I'd say it is very bad sportsmanship if choses to have it.
I'm not saying you can win this one but if you keep your fire focused, remember to obliterate any unit upon which you fire. (you still have 8 Bolts a turn with a good BS)
Also you should remember that the thralls will let you use the Key again as it is a major Power. So you could reroll a scatterdice (but of course not use anyother spell)
Bring as many troops as possible.
In the new cityfight rules, your surposed to take buildings, I've played them... and lost. XD
#So bring alot of scoring troops.
I am Narcotick. Fear me.
LO Musicians clan.
Thanks a lot for the advice Andusciassus, very helpful. Doesn't Wind of Chaos kill any models under the template on a 4+? Surely an assault with WoC and subsequent combat with one of the Chosen should deadly?
Missed the D.Speed and Thrall issue with the Lord. I'll switch Speed, Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol for Darkblade, Bolt Pistol and Gift of Chaos.
Would you recommend dropping D. Strength and Wind of Chaos from the Chosen, giving them Bolt of Change and D. Aura instead? That will remove a lot of combat effectiveness.
Chaosgod and Narcotick, thanks for the advice - but in my first post I mentioned that these are all the models I have so far, and I thought it might be fun to try a game with them. I'm playing the store manager, so yes Chosen are allowed in our store.
I think you should really try to stay away from Close Combat.
The thing about Wind of Chaos and teleporting is that once you've teleported you cannot move. If you want to charge you'll have to wait till your next turn.
Not all that great a thing to do when you are within Template-distance of the Templars. Wait that is.
They will charge you and you will die.
If you stand and shoot however you'll get one or two turns of S8 death before teleporting and gaining another couple of turns.
This is how I would have done anyway.
Split your daemons into one only Horror unit (this will lock down units in HtH) and one of one Horror and four Flamers (to shoot). Keep the Flamer-dominated unit away (13-18" from any Templars, just let them float around and kill people) the Horror sqquad should tie down Templars getting close to your lord so he can walk up and snipe two with Gift of Chaos and then Charge in to mop up the rest only to find shelter behind the horrors again.
If you like the Wind (and who doesn't) give it to your Lord as a complement to his Gift of Chaos, not to the Chosen.
Good luck and may the Force be with you, you will need it. this is not about winning but to get as many as possible with you as you go.
Okay, here are the results!
He ended up taking 3 Crusader squads of 15 models each. 1 Siege Dreadnought with Inferno Cannon and 1 Chaplain in Terminator Armour. Plus Emperor's champion.
He used the Sewer Rats strategem and rolled well for his reserves. 2 Crusader squads in turn 2.
He also took Abhor the Witch (5+ 'Dispel' on all psyker powers - ignore Minor ones). I think i may have got 3 Bolts of Change off in that game and naught else. I got slaughtered. I killed the Dread with 1 lucky Bolt, and my Lord wiped out the EC and 15 Marines before dying to 30 bolter shots. Another 15 marines died to 2 Chosen and 10 Daemons, but then got wiped out by the Chaplain squad. All in all, not so good a game. I still haven't forgiven him for using Abhor the Witch.
Since the first one took about 45mins, I played a second one with another staff member who used Lost and the Damned mutant list. 2 Units of 30 with Aspiring Champions. 2 Obliterators. 6 Raptors with 3 flamers.
It was a firesweep mission, so you had to secure buildings with scoring units - I only had 2 and they were both in reserve!
Raptors infiltrated and assaulted first turn, the 3 flamers wiped out 7 Thrall Wizards. And because of "Majority Toughness/Save", one Chosen went down with them. The Lord wiped the unit out in one go.
Lord and 1 Chosen wiped out a unit of Mutants with Wind of Chaos and attacks. One remaining chosen teleported to the opposite table quarter and summed the horrors to score one building. I also managed to detonate a building on top of another unit of Mutants to deny him that scoring building.
In the 3rd turn, I had Lord and 2 Chosen (no daemons or thralls left!) and he had 2 Obliterators and 15 Mutants. I won because for some incredible reason I had more scoring buildings (having realised that 1 Chosen and 1 Thrall counts as a 'unit'!).
This list is powerful if you can isolate individual units, but goes down to firepower. The Lord and the chosen are close combat beasts but easily succumb to most shooting so keep them out of range/LOS or in combat.
Cityfight is not the best platform because of low numbers of scoring units.
Also, MUST REMEMBER THE MAJORITY RULE. A lot of chosen died because they were carrying along T3 W1 thralls.
Well, as it was explained to me by the staff: 1 Chosen with W2 T5 Sv 3+/5+ and 3 Thralls with W1 T3 Sv --. 5 Wounds total.Originally Posted by Andusciassus
Firing with bolters for example he gets 5 hits. If he rolls 3+ (S4 v T3) for all five then all models die because the Thralls (who are the majority) have no save. Is this correct?
And yes, I was quite amazed as well!
That's blatantly wrong. The majority rule exists only with toughness. Of course your chosed gets his save! Otherwise what's the point of his massive point value?
If the unit you describe takes 5 wounds, then you would have to remove the thralls, but you still get 2 armour save rolls for the chosen!
Rule book page 76 in a big box mate. Read it and then take the nice heavy rule book and smite down the evil employee.
Actually, I shouldn't condone violence, so don't do that. But be aware for next time.
Jeepers, give some people an inch and they take a mile eh?
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric