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My current army is set up to be a version of IW when I need it to be, but serving just as a generic shooty legion when I can't use the big guns.
I love termintaors. I'm just trying to decide which to take in a unit of 6 as a taunt to opponents (Everyone wants to kill a well armed squad of terminators) into attacking them and letting my shooty forces take their toll as best they can.
The way I figure it :
+Lowers other's I...Hello, chaplain...*smish*
+They won't look really odd in my army (Clean, simplistic gold/purple scheme..Looks more like pointy space marines)
-I think I might make them pink
-They aren't as "uber" as some other choices
+5+ to wound is sexy.
+I fight mainly MEQ/S3's (5/6 to wound)
-Against nids they would probably just get dragged down due to simplistic shooting
-Their ubertoughness doesn't matter when I am being aimed at with dark lances/attacked by powerfists
+Good god. They're Khorne terminators.
+STOMP CHOP SMASH
+ Would make an amazing countercharge unit/"keep the hell away from them" unit.
-Lose their useful shooty abilities
-Would eliminate any squad they charge and then probably be shot up by every gun in the army.
-Would probably run too close to a lith or a vindicator.
+Sit them in cover, they could make a huge roadblock
+Things will be dragged down in CC due to # of wounds required
+Resiliant to guard shooting
+Can deal with nids more efficiently than death guard
-2 wounds are useless vs d.lances/las/pfists.
Just looking for some input. I'm really leaning towards Slan, but I can imagine a big evil CC unit would be quite useful as support in an army where I lack CC support.
I think it is obvious that you need the Termis to fill a very specific role and by giving them Khorne marks you lose a lot of your control and firepower. Scary as they may be in CC, I (as your opponent) wouldn't even worry about them for a while. IMO you lose 75% of their effectiveness in the role you need them to fill giving them a Khorne mark.
Slaanesh: Termis with blastmasters can deffinitely lay down a storm of shots, with two things to consider:
They arn't as "uber", but cost as much when you get the +5 mark then +5 blastmaster. Thats a lot of points for just another bolter shot.
You are trying to make your Termis into canon fodder and this mark doesn't give you any padding.
The mark of Nurgle would be your first real choice to consider. The added toughness would force your opponent to rely only on heavy weapons to take em out. None of that hail of gunfire hoping for a failed save. I also think it would be worth it to even take an AC and throw the Rot on 'em. This will give your opponent just that one extra incentive not to let them close in. More of a psych out really.
Tzeentch: With 2 wounds a base, you are taunting your opponent. At 46 points a model, you are justifying his focus to kill them. Their 5+ invulnerable save will also kick in enough to really annoy your opponent.
To quote you: "I love termintaors. I'm just trying to decide which to take in a unit of 6 as a taunt to opponents (Everyone wants to kill a well armed squad of terminators) into attacking them and letting my shooty forces take their toll as best they can."
Then at the bottom on the post: "2 wounds are useless vs d.lances/las/pfists."
Hehehe, and there ya go. You now have a squad that pretty much forces your opponent to use his heavy weapons. Instant death? Assuming the 5+ fails, yeah, but that squad of 5-6 Rubi-Termis is going to soak up a LOT of very heavy firepower that would otherwise be tearing apart any armor you may have.
If you ask me, the extra 25-30 points over the Nurgle Termis is a steal, but I am going to suggest you play a few games with each. You never know just how your opponent may react to the two situations. If the Nurgle mark fools your opponents into trying more small arms to take em out, or if he uses all heavy weapons anyways, just go with it. The full 6" move otherwise restricted by Slow and Purposeful will add more stress for your opponent. However, if you are going to field a lot of armor I would go with the Tzeentch Termis.
Last edited by TreeSapX; June 22nd, 2006 at 07:18.
Agreed, however, you can turn this on your head if you have the resources to deepstrike them and use teleport homers. Armed with power weapons and chain fists etc, you have what can only be described as blood letters on crack.Originally Posted by TreeSapX
But treesap is spot on otherwise. They're just running along.
Everything else, I pretty much agree with Treesap. Esp with regards to Nurgle terminators who I'm toying with myself.
Everyone canes terminators for being point sinks. But they're incredibly cool, and is that not a justification in itself?
Rubric termies are actualy cheaper then staited. They only cost 1 more point then a nurgle termi. On top of that you give the champ a powerfist and a psi power and in the end they cost pritty much the same. For instance 6 tzeench termies with champ, powerfist, bolt of change, and two thralls is only 320, while 6 nurgle termies with 2 reapers, 2 powerfists, champ with d str, powerweapon and CCW is 312.
For durability both are great, it really depends on the specific use you want, really I find that plasma is the #1 way my termies die, and the rubrics just handle that better. Khornite and Slaneesh termies are both more powerful, but lack the durability increase along side their cost increase. I would save them for all out attack armies.
Well chaos termis are really expensive, but you have the points to spend and a roll to fill they do nicely.
Generally you want to use termis for shooting, and since you said to sue 6 of them, I'm assuming you want to the 2 heavies option.
If you plan to deepstrike them, use teleport homer, it's well worth the 5 points. Put it on an infiltrating unit, does well.
If doing the shooty termis give them tank hunters. Unless tzeetch of course.
Tzeetch termis all made into sorcerors with doom bolt is seriously nasty. I tried that once in my undevided army and they laid waiste for a couple of turns before my opponent decided to shoot at them with his entire army. Which is fine, nothing else got shot at that turn. This is a VERY expensive unit though, making each one a sorcerer.
I think some nurlge ones would work out pretty well too for the reasons you stated.
Or just some undevided guys, with tank hunters, and 2 reaper autocannons, and half powerfists and half power weapons.
Yeah, that is definitely scary. I was just considering that he wanted the termis to take a fodder role while maybe laying down some fire.Originally Posted by Karmoon
Undependable shooting due to Blood Frenzy = -50% role effectiveness
Combine that with the effect that Blood Frenzy moves them for you, potentially running them away from covering your units and you've got another -25% or so.
You know what, though... Now that you mention Deep Strike, how many players have actually SEEN Khorne Termis? With that in mind, infiltrate or drop a homer on some mobile troops (Raptors/Bikers), race em into the front lines and let em rip. With any luck your opponent will be thinking "alright he's got Termis coming" when he should be thinking "dear god they're going to do WHAT in CC?"
I may have to give that a shot.
BTW, xrix1, do you mind explaining to me your cost analysis of Rubric Termis?
Mine went like this: Points costs removed - please don't break Copyright rules.
Then again I don't even know how you take Rubric Termis (was assuming on faith that everyone talked about them) because the codex says that any Chosen with the mark is a sorcerer, ergo sans Rubric. If anyone could clear this up for me I'd be grateful.
Last edited by Caluin; June 22nd, 2006 at 19:30.
Originally Posted by TreeSapX
Check the Book of Tzeentch. You're thinking of Chosen Termies, which aren't the same as Rubric Termies. Rubrics are a bit cheaper and more durable, but can't have any nifty options like Chosen Termies.
Reference page 59, right hand column, second paragraph under "Chaos Marines."
Now I get the math, was confused for a second.
If I could sit them in cover I believe Rubrics would serve me better, they'd have to put alot of firepower into them to bring them down which would allow me to utilize more of my cheaper, smaller squads without getting shot to bits (I can't even imagine the frustration of a tau commander at rubrics sitting in 3+ cover)
I can't remember if they abolished the "strike at I1" rule or not, so cover would be very good for their health should anything want to poke them.
I figure I'll try both the Khorne and the Rubric, depending on who I'm facing (hey, hey GKT's....) and what I want to try to do.
Sorry about that Cally, I'll be more careful in the future.Originally Posted by Caluin
And, duh, I completely missed the other side. I barely have enough to field a squad of 5 1k Sons so I don't browse the Tzeentch book all that often. Still shoulda seen that...
I think, that Helbrecht has some and if he does they're absolutely amazing.Originally Posted by TreeSapX
I thought his avatar was a pic or something for ages, it was only later that i realised that it'S an actual model he's built and painted.
Some people make me sick! SICK I TELL YOU! With their talent, and skills and all other things I don't have.
Apologies, Helbrecht's picture is of a Dark Apostle, not a Khornate Terminator.
It still looks good though. Damn you talented people!
Last edited by Karmoon; June 23rd, 2006 at 00:28.