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First off, I'd like to reconfirm Games Workshop suxs. Second off, Chaos, other than the use of Nightlords, got screwed with fast attack choices. We've got to be the slowest army there is. Think about it, SM don't have 0-1 on Jumppacks, has Speeders and an alternative transport. Tau and Eldar has Skimmers. Orcs got a bunch of light vehicles. Tyranid just swarms. IG is a stationary army. Necrons have too many saves so they can't complain about anything.
WE GOT THE SHORT END OF THE STICK! Come on Gamesworkshop lower Raptors and our Bike cost by 4 or 5 points and I'd be happy. Or give us a fast attack vehicle for the love of god. Ranting DONE!
NOW since none of that will ever happen because GW doesn't know what their players want, I need help on deciding whether to take Furies or Flesh hounds in my army. Here's what I figured their Pro's, so tell me their Con's people.
Flesh Hounds: Fleet of Foot rule, Collars of Khorne
Furies: Undivided, Flight
Flight puts me off simply because of the new rules in Citie of Death. And With Flesh hounds, I wound have to worr about that. I am Black Legion, you should know this people (sorry fast attack in subject of Chaos makes me angry).
Oh boo hoo.. those loyalists get land speeders.
Do they get veteran skills without traits?
Do they get daemons?
Do they get an HQ choice which can take on entire armies?
Different armies have different strengths and weaknesses. Chaos is weaker than most in fast attack, but it's much, much stronger than most in other areas.
Sorry, I don't mean to rant, but I think you just want chaos to have everything. Don't we all.. but it wouldn't be very fair would it?
As for the choice, I'd go with furies. I've seen them do nasty things, which is more than can be said for flesh hounds.
Really? HQ that can take on entire armies? Tell me this set up please, I deplore you to do so. As for daemons, they have to wait a turn, so I am taking a chance buying these guys that may do nothing! Not to mention spending 60$ for who knows how many of them. And traits are so much cheaper man not even funny, drawbacks are nothing. Chaos is just to STATIC against all most armies, especially Eldar, who I abhor and its not going to to be easier fighting them even after the new codex because they still have to skimmers.Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
I hardly agree with you.
Bikes supported by a lieutenant and capable of summoning demons?
How are they cheaper? Our infiltrating marines are a point cheaper than space marine veterans and tac marines with the Blood Ravens traits. Plus we are not limited to just one veteran skill, plus we can have our entire army infiltrate! Kinda makes up for the speed thing.And traits are so much cheaper man not even funny, drawbacks are nothing.Have you ever seen a properly tooled up Nurgle or Khorne Daemon Prince in action?Really? HQ that can take on entire armies?
Don't fret about the fast attack or lack thereof, we have lots of things that can make up for it such as possesed with D.Flight, rhinos, infiltrate veteran skill, and Chaos lords with access to D.Speed and D.Flight.
Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x
Perhaps I've been playing to much Eldar and it is getting to my head. I've never even destroyed a Falcon *sob*... ARGH!
Originally Posted by LictorInTheGrass
If you don't like Chaos, why did you chose it in the first place. Chaos armies are amongst the most powerfull and versatiles of all armies in 40k universe. Chaos is adaptable and this is one of it's best quality. Stop complaining and learn to serve you gods, you'll be rewarded with great victories and a lot of great chaotic gifts. Embrace Chaos and you'll become invincible.
As with eldars, have you tried a lot of heavy bolter. Autocannons are excellent to destroy their falcon. Daemon princes or greater daemons can get through their walkers. This is not so hard.
CHAOS Undiv.: won 14/22 games EC: 4/7 WE: 6/9 DG: 10/15, TS: 3/7 Orks : 13/20 SM NL : 1/6 TAU: 14 of 24 IG: 3/7
Not to mention with chaos you have the demonbomb tactic, few armies have anything simlair to it, not even SM.
Learn to play with chaos or don't play it at all.
We have far more optinos than SM, we don't need their fast attack optinos we have far better weapons en tactics available to us.
I really hate to jump in on this gang-up on your rant, but you really do need to sit back and look over what Chaos has to offer. First of all: How long have you been playing? I played about 5-8 years ago and have just been getting back into the game. One thing I have noticed about 40k now is that all of the armies are SO different that actual army strategies and tactics make much more of a difference than anything else.
You are probably right when you say you've been playing Eldar too long. If you play Chaos anything closely related to the way you play an Eldar army, you are doing it wrong. Eldar is like playing with fire, fragile but fast, colorful, and deadly, whereas Chaos is more like an A-Bomb, very few in numbers, extremely expensive, but drop it in the right place and the war is over:There are a few tactics to doing this, and an array of equipment options, but they all lead to the same results: Dead dead dead troops. Clear a path with an advancing unit, attack the opposite flank with Heavy weapons for distraction, equip the Lord with Feel No Pain or any other option that will get him through the shooting phases, then watch as he single-handedly wipes out entire squads. Just last Thursday I watched a Khorne Prince close in on the poorly guarded right flank of a Tau army and the Prince ended up wiping out half the army. Took out 6 Fire Warriors on his first charge.Originally Posted by LictorInTheGrassUnless they deep strike into an enemy, which they rarely do cause they deep strike with reserve rules, daemons tear up the battlefield. The fact that they have to be summoned can only be a boon as they are only a CC unit anyways. Buy a few Icons and spread them out across your army then watch the carnage. There is nothing else I can say than this: Watch 7 Bloodletters go to town on some Necrons then come back and tell me what you think.Originally Posted by LictorInTheGrassRight now they may seem static to you because they move so slow, but due to previous statements you have said I have to say this:Originally Posted by LictorInTheGrass
Chaos doesn't need maneuverability. Enemies get the hell out of their way or get cut down.
Berzerkers, even with Blood Lust, are fairly slow for a lot of CC troops in other armies. No skimmers and they even jump out of the Rhinos they ride in. But anything that they touch is most likely going to be dog meat within two rounds. Plague Marines are slow, they can ride in Rhinos but their prowess in fighting is not as deadly, it's just assured. Rot does pick off enough stuff to surprise you but their extra toughness makes them SO hard to kill. Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children don't even need to move. The former can take its time while the latter lays down an ungodly amount of firepower.
It sounds to me that you need to try many of the different options that Chaos has to offer. Envelop them with infiltrators or strike 'em with a power-armored spear of Khornate warriors while the few fast units you do have give 'em hell on the flanks. If you take anything from this post take this piece of advice, please: Daemons are worth whatever money/points you can spend on them.
Last edited by TreeSapX; July 4th, 2006 at 18:26.
I'm actuallu quite happy with raptors. Giving them meltas or flamers and furious charge and using Hit and Run to break off after the enemies assault lets you make up to 6 furious charges preceeded by bolt pistol and special weapon fire. That gets pretty nasty.
Personally, I've never had incredible luck using princes, but I've learned how to beat them: plasma. They're high enough strength to wound easily and go straight to invulnerable saves, which won't be better than 4+ for chaos. I've consistantly sent a squad with 2 rifles and a pistol on the champion and after a round of double tapping either killed the rpince or left him with one wound.
And that brings me into what I think one of the biggest Chaos advantages is: special weapons. Unlike most armies, they can take 2. I don't mean a heavy weapon and a special weapon, but 2 special weapons. They get even better when combined with skills. A plsma squad with move through cover are fantastic in almost every terrain and against most enemies, and a melta squad with infiltrate will really distress any tanks the enemy has.
Chief Inspector Dreyfus: Are you wounded?
Clouseau: No. Fortunately I was saved by the darkness.
Chief Inspector Dreyfus: So what we need is more light.