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As my title says, I'm going to have a 1500 pt match vs. my friend who plays Tyranids for the first time. I did some research and I thought up a list that might give me a chance. If you dont mind, please post your thoughts and advice on what i should do/look out for in this match. O, and we also agreed on +/- 10pts of the maximum.
Here is what I have:
Mark of Khorne
Feel no Pain
total= 384 pts
Heavy Bolter Squad*5
Heavy Bolter Squad*5
which comes to a total of 1504 pts if I'm correct.
Last edited by Caluin; July 13th, 2006 at 17:48.
Tyranid armies come in all shapes and sizes, so knowing a bit more about your friend's list would be helpful so we can give accurate advice. Seeing that you run a 'zerker list, your big concern will be deployment so that your berzerkers will be charging units they can get an advantage against, although generally I'm guessing you'll want to deploy as far back as you can because a lot of Tyranid units can be successful in CC, especially against high point and low volume units like Chaos Space Marines. Play defensively (can Khornates even do that?...at least try). You probably want an extra turn of shooting, if possible.
Havoc squads with heavy bolter: very valuable unit for you in this match. Heavy bolter is an excellent choice against most small Tyranids, although they have a lot of monstrous creature units with at least marine-like armor that the bolters will not touch. Ask your friend to identify squads of Genestealers for you on the field - they are the best targets for your havocs and MUST be killed by shooting before they can reach CC, given priority even over other, closer units. Once the genestealers are gone, the bolters can cut through large numbers of gaunts, gargoyles, warriors, or other light and medium fare.
Obliterators: The lascannon is a precious commodity. Look for monstrous creatures in the back of your enemy's lines that primarily shoot (you may see this, you may not - I'm specifically referring to the Carnifex and zoanthrope. The former is a huge thing that will be either throwing pie plates or shooting S10 shots at you. The latter seems to be smaller levitate a bit and will do nothing until it gets close, then spray AP3 shots.) Shoot these creatures down with lascannon. If you do not see these creatures, use the lascannon against advancing large Tyranids, especially fast ones.
Berzerkers: Try to add champions with powerfists to these squads, because their primary job will be holding off tyranid monstrous creatures ("TMCs") - hive tyrant, carnifex. TMCs have very high toughness that a berzerker's strength can just barely touch, as well as marine equivalent armor. Chainaxes can help with the armor somewhat, but you really need a high-strength weapon to pull it off effectively. If you can spare the points, Furious Charge is a maybe for these units and the aforementioned powerfist a definite. Use them to screen your bolter squads, but try to deploy so their first charge target is not a squad of genestealers.
Terminators: Equip with powerfists, use just like Berzerkers. A lot of powerfist hits will beat down even a TMC quickly.
Defiler: In the early turns, contribute fire against the genestealers. You want them gone before CC, no questions asked. Later, this may be effective in wounding TMCs (I say 'may' because sometimes TMCs take terminator-equivalent armor as an upgrade) or when taking opportunity shots at clumped together units of smaller Tyranids.
Demon Prince: In a typical match against other armies, a points-heavy Prince is a beast; however, basic Tyranid TMCs are only moderately less potent than your fully-tooled Prince and cost half as much. Do not be overconfident about how awesome your DP is; you need to conserve your DP's wounds in this battle. Look first for a winged hive tyrant (TMC with, you guessed it, wings) and set up to counter that, as the DP is probably the only thing you have that can. If there is none, use your DP to add offensive strength to one of your 'zerker squads while your 'zerkers hold off the main force. I recommend taking only basic upgrades to your Prince (Mark, Dark Blade, Stature) and adding Daemonic Aura. Most CC Tyranids do their damage either by being monstrous creatures that ignore armor or with rending attacks that wound automatically and ignore armor; Feel No Pain does not protect you against that, but Aura will. Use the points you saved to buy champions and powerfists for your 'zerker squads.
This is, generally, a challenging match for you - you are playing a CC list against a CC race, and Tyranids control a diversity of ways to hurt Chaos Marines. Here's wishing you a great, fun game!
Last edited by Sycophant; July 13th, 2006 at 04:21.
Syco gave you a pretty good analysis there, but I do want to emphasize something he mentioned:
Even if you don't have enough guys to hold 'em, just keep paying the points for power fists. Just buy a pile of them of put in the middle of the field and maybe a 'Fex will trip over it and die, you never know. The moral of the story: 90% of the Tyranid killing power comes in the form of the big, nasty montsrous critters. Everything else there is pretty much to lock you into combat until the big boys come to play.
I suggest lining your army up into rows. Line your basic guys up front and your havy weapons way in the back. This way when your front line breaks from pressure you can have a turn to blow away whats left. And like I said before you can never have enough PF's against 'Nids. Last night I watched as a SM champ with about four attacks (like a Khorne champ) carved through a tyrant, its two guards, and a carnifex.
Thanks for the advice guys... if i make my lord with: Mark of Khorne, Dark Blade, D. Stature, and D. Aura i should have 35 pts to turn a zerker into a champ. with a p. fist. Also, i could drop one zerker in the other squad and make another a champ. with another p. fist. Idk where I would get the points to give the termies their p. fists tho, unless I take off those reaper autocannons and replace them with power fists and combi flamers. ( O and do combi flamers only have one use as a flamer per game or round? )
Last edited by inlukasha; July 13th, 2006 at 05:03.
Combi weapons are one use per game.
Definitely fit those fists in, what you have so far looks pretty good.
Keep this in mind while you take those Reaper Autocannons off:
'Nids are notorious for getting into combat pretty reliably on turn two. That gives you a maximum of two turns shooting to expect to use those cannons. After that it is going to be CC for most of the remaining turns. You will be kissings those fists once that starts occuring. Just keep those Termis AWAY from Genestealers. They should be your first shooting priority for any bolter rounds, but he will most likely keep them very well hidden. I suggest keeping a squad of troops nearby the Termis. That way if the Stealers start closing in you can feignt away and wedge the troopers in front of their charge.
Here is a fun idea, it really depends on how much you know your type of opponent:
Use the Defiler as Genestealer bait, or bait for whatever else you want to lure out to distruction. Instead of placing it far back with your Havocs, place it a little forward on your field to coax out some of the nasty fighters (assuming he doesn't have too many anti-tank rifles). After you place it in a forward position place the rest of your army with the idea that the 'Filer is going to be playing bait for some nasty critters. He may not make his points back, but trust me when I say anything is worth twice the points if it helps you predict your opponent.
Ha ha ha, see the mighty power of the Chaos forum on LO!
If he's playing a swarm army, try some nurgle units - plague bearers.
Their rot should be able to do some damage, and they're quite effective against the really tough TMCs.
Daemonettes also are, it's great to use a Nid player's rend technique against themselves.#
I personally think that the terminators should be dropped they tie up too many points which should be spent on more bodies and more guns.
The main thing I've found useful playing nids is simply to control the game. A lot of Tyranid players seem to do all their planning during deployment and then just run at you as fast as they can, use that to your advantage. Force him/her to make decisions about where to go, try to split up their force, make sure combats happen where and when you decide they should.
Pretty general advice I realise, but I've found it particularly useful to keep in mind when fighting 'nids (rather then getting psyked out and spending the game huddling in a corner hopping you can shoot enough down before they get to your lines).
Thousand Sons ~2750 points | Eldar ~1000 points
Tzeentch Daemons ~2000 points
Or, you can really piss him off by playing on a 4x6 table and play lengthwise! (deploy on 4' side ) So, if you do grab those autocannons by the trigger and blast away! Another peice of advise is take Option1 Berzerker glaive on your DP, 4 Atks base, charge, zerk, wep, mutation=8 atks Option 2 Dread Axe= 4base, 1 charge, 1possible zerk, 1 for 2 ccws =6-7 attks and he gets no save possible if your a monsturous creature, Yay! (Monsturous creature makes all attacks power, and dreadaxe negates invul. saves.)
Well the reason I was thinking termies is due to the amount of damage tyranids can unleash upon normal zerkers. The termies can withstand more with the 2+ armor and than a 5+ inv. incase they get some rending rolls. I'm also counting on the only thing he said about his list, which was: I'll show you faster attack and stronger troops than zerkers. So I would retaliate with the termies all with p.fists, since it seems I would be attacking last anyways according to him. I've also thought about just ditching the termies and getting bikers and bloodletters, however, I currently only own 8 bloodletters and 3 bikers . One last upgrade which I think might make the bugs more irritated is mutated hull on the defiler. With 13/13/11 it should make piercing it a pain in the ass, especially since it already counts as having demonic possesion, which blocks most effects of glancing hits.
Meh... in the end I wish I had the Slaanesh figures, I believe they would do a lot better than khorne.
O and I believe using the glaive in this situation would be a bad idea since I want to stay back as long as possible while my gunners thin out the numbers. The glaive would just send me into a suicide rush where all those damn bugs would just pile in on him.
Last edited by inlukasha; July 13th, 2006 at 15:37.
Just remember not to mollycoddle your DP in cotton wool ok? (transporting him excluded )
he's there to kill, and if he dies in the process, as long as he's made his points back, big deallio.
Take into consideration what Destp said as well. That's a really interesting idea about setting up psychology.
If you take not a cult army but a khorne heavy army, then you might be able to really turn the tables with some well infiltrated units.
Khorne can win against nids. don't lose hope budski.