Lost and the Damned (?to collect?) - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    Lost and the Damned (?to collect?)

    hi everyone, sorry about the title.

    I have been trying to decide on a new army to collect for some time now and chaos has always been nagging at my mind.

    however I have a certain... 'philosophy'... that I always collect the humans, and preferably the good guys at that.

    The savlar chem-dogs have been one option but the Lost and the Damned were another.

    Are there many Lost and the Damned players?
    Are they any good/competitive?
    Are they inferior to chaos?
    Are they boring/fun to play?
    Are their models any good?
    Will they remain legal much longer? or are GW trying to phase them out.
    Are their rules still up to date with 4th ed?

    For those of you who have read my journal, and more specifically the story of Lt. Vein I think I could incorporate him into a LatD army. That would allow me to use my existing fluff. I think I could also write some fluff about them being good guys.

    I was thinking of maybe doing something about inventing a guard regiment whos planet was unjustly obliterated by an inquisitor. they believe that humanity is slowly killing itself with its massive wars with every species in the galaxy. That the only way to save humanity is to join the chaos gods and use the power of chaos to establish their dominance in the galaxy.

    i'm posting for some answers to the questions i stated and if anyone has any tips or advice for the Lost and the Damned.

    thanks in advance

    Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!

    If anyone wants any kind of help writing fluff for any kind of GW army just ask.

    Fluffmaster
    Anzac Clan

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  3. #2
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordLink
    1. Are there many Lost and the Damned players?
    2. Are they any good/competitive?
    3. Are they inferior to chaos?
    4. Are they boring/fun to play?
    5. Are their models any good?
    6. Will they remain legal much longer? or are GW trying to phase them out.
    Are their rules still up to date with 4th ed?
    1. PM Jormagi. Not that many lost and damned players. Most chaos players are Black LEgion or Khorne.
    2. They can be if balanced well.
    3. I'm tempted to say yes, but the reality answer is probably that it's just more difficult to make a decent list.
    4. Incredibly fun. Your units will run away at the slightest hint of danger, some of your models are more likely to kill themselves than the enemy and you have access to ZOMBIES! It's a fun army for those who can take a laugh. If you want reliability, take ultra marines.
    5. You decide how good the models are. It's a labour of love. Your creativity will dictate how good the models are.
    6. Their rules are up to date with 4th ed - Eye of terror codex. You should be ok to fight with them, but you may have trouble in tournaments. What GW decides to do in the future is more or less impossible to tell.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by Karmoon; August 1st, 2006 at 14:28.
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  4. #3
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    As near as everyone has told me. If you plan on going traitor heavy as you are much better off just using the IG codex and doing a pure traitor guard army. However i think they could be competitivy if you went mutant heavy.

    I think the opertunity for conversions are termindous though with a LaTd army.
    -Where Were You The Day They Stole Your Inocence?

    -It Was About Time To Dig A New Well Anyway.

  5. #4
    Senior Member xrix1's Avatar
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    in 1700 I use two squads of mutants(no upgrades, almost always the best way to take them) lead by asp champs, 4 squads of trators, 3 oblits, 2 L russes, 2 squads of 10 wolves (hormagaunts with str 4 and T 4 for the same cost!) and a chaos lord to run with them.

    The list puts out a fair amount of fire, and dishes out a beating in CC. I can tell you that I have not lost a single fight due to casualties, I have always out pointed my opponents in kills. However I do have problems holding objectives as my moblile aspects rairly end the game above 1/2, and this has caused me to lose a few times. The mutants absorb a huge amount of fire and still kill alot when there are 10 left (I get 11 powerfist attacks out of that squad still), and the wolves get into CC fast, kill stuff and tie it up for the mutants, but rairly last until turn 6. Usualy my trators tanks and oblits survive but arn't near the objectives.

    I will say one thing for mutants led by an asp champ, they are REALLY hard to defeat in CC. Termies, genestealers, black templar, dreadnaughts, Khorn 'zerkers none of them can kill the mutants fast enough to get to the two fists before they die. Bolters and flamers tend to do a steller job on them though.

  6. #5
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    I agree with lack0fbettername..

    If you want to play competatively with 'humanoid' humans, just use IG. There is abseloutely no point paying 8 points a model for two 20 man guard squads with only one heavy weapon each.

    However, when you bring mutants into the equation, things get downright scary. The trouble is, mutants aren't human. It's pretty hard to rationalize them as good guys because they just want to tear things apart and eat their flesh.

    Also remember that lost and the damned have been phased out at some tournaments, though they still seem quite legal for normal play.

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    They're hungry...Other things are shooting at them, they are defending themselves. *sympathy*

    Heh.


    Seriously though, I've seen Latd lists do very well versus some armies (the look on the khorne player's face was absolutely priceless) but not so well versus others (railguns with submunition! ack!) They look fun to play simply because they are so....odd? They aren't really intended to "own" but they are challenging to play and are a ton more fun to play against than regular SM/CSM

  8. #7
    LO Zealot hero's Avatar
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    the only thing i can ssay is if you really enjoy modeling and converting then this is the army for you

  9. #8
    Librarian from Hell Andusciassus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hero
    the only thing i can ssay is if you really enjoy modeling and converting then this is the army for you
    I must double this. THere is no army that offers such diversity as LatD, and ifyou think CSM are converter-friendly, LatD is even more so. It's a great army both to field and collect.
    I can see how Lt. Vein chose to go his own way, got some mortals to worship him and his trusted ones only to achieve some personal goal.
    But as Mantis said, don't use them as a traitor-only army that is really an expensive and bad choice. Some mutants, some CSMs a few daemons...did I mention Basilisks?

  10. #9
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    thanks for all the help. I will of course not be going pure traitors but remember they pay 2 points over a normal guardsmen but still get infilrate as a bonus.
    Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!

    If anyone wants any kind of help writing fluff for any kind of GW army just ask.

    Fluffmaster
    Anzac Clan

  11. #10
    Senior Member JORMAGI's Avatar
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    OK to put my take on the questions:

    Are there many Lost and the Damned players?
    No not many. I know of only one other in the small handful of stores that I've played in. One of the reasons I love them is the shocked look on peoples faces when I tell them I play LatD.

    Are they any good/competitive?
    Yes they're as good as any other army, but they do have a lot of issues that make it very easy to put together a bad list. It's very easy to shoot yourself in the foot when building a LatD list, but done right they're very powerful.

    Are they inferior to chaos?
    They are in only one respect: it's harder to put together a good list. Once you have a good list though they have nothing to fear from chaos players.

    Are they boring/fun to play?
    Very fun to play: they are a thinkers army. Varied troops working together to achieve victory. Pressuring your opponent with massed hordes of guys, trying to get them into CC, supporting them with daemons that come in at random times & places, and also supporting them with guard tanks. They're hands down my favorite army in the game.


    Are their models any good?
    They're as good as you convert them. That said conversions are pretty easy, the guys are supposed to be funny looking.

    Will they remain legal much longer? or are GW trying to phase them out.
    To tell you the truth I'm trying to figure out the answer to that question myself. What I do know is that they're legal everywhere but the Grand Tournement this year. (But then the craftworld eldar codex is not legal this year either.) As for the future? It's hard to say, from the fluff, just as Guard are the main force of the Imperium, LatD are the main force of Chaos. Marines in both cases are just the elite few. Based on the fluff I expect that they'll probably get an update sometime in the future, probably in a campain book like they came in to start with, but I hope that there will be a full codex for them in the future. With as many codexes as loyalist marines have it wouldn't hurt for LatD to get their own book for a second Chaos Codex.

    Are their rules still up to date with 4th ed?
    They're 3rd edition rules, but there isn't any glaring conflicts, and mutants recieved a definite boost from the new assault rules. They preform better under 4th edition than the third they where created under.

    I will not tell you not to make a traitor based LatD list. They can be effective, but do be sure to take advantage of the Chaos stuff available, or you'll be overpaying for your infiltrate (regular guard pay what comes to 1 pt per model for it whereas traitors are 2 more per model than guard.) You don't need mutants, (though they're so good I can't pass them up myself & they ease complications of compulsery traitor squads. . .) But do take chaos elements. Be they daemons, mutants, CSM squad support. Then when an opponents elite CC squad gets close to your traitors, you summon daemonettes or bloodletters and destroy them to their suprise. (that kind of stuff.)
    Votewar MKV 2nd place. . .

    Back from internet limbo, and glad to be here.

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