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  1. #1
    Senior Member JORMAGI's Avatar
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    Daemons & Improved Comms

    One bit of grey area in the LatD ruleset is the issue with Daemonic Summoning, and the effect of Improved Comms.

    For a clarification Improved comms lets you reroll one reserve roll per turn.
    The question is does this affect Daemons.

    I seem to remember seeing this question asked before, and if I remember correctly that most people here seemed to think that it did not. I myself have never been of that opinion, but have avoided the controversy by not taking it for my LatD.

    Recently there was a debate about Daemon Icon's allowing the first turn charge. The concensus was that it did not because Daemons are RESERVES. The icon allows for the skipping of the roll, but still does not let them summon first turn.

    If this is the case then why wouldn't Improved Comms work for bringing in Daemons from reserves?

    Improved comms does not specify how the reserves come in: deep strike, table edge or daemonic summoning.

    So I guess I could restate the question as: Are Daemons reserves that have special rules for comming into play, or are they something else entirely, and if so what?

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    Senior Member Narcotick's Avatar
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    Well, yeah. I think it does help there reserves, maybe it's a special psyker who has Improved communication with THE WARP.
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    Returning Lawman! Riptor's Avatar
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    To quote Gorbass from the original post:

    No, the Improved Coms can influence one Reserves roll, daemons require a Summoning roll, besides, it wouldnt much sense fluffwise:

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    This is the original debate over it.

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  5. #4
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JORMAGI
    One bit of grey area in the LatD ruleset is the issue with Daemonic Summoning, and the effect of Improved Comms.

    For a clarification Improved comms lets you reroll one reserve roll per turn.
    The question is does this affect Daemons.

    I seem to remember seeing this question asked before, and if I remember correctly that most people here seemed to think that it did not. I myself have never been of that opinion, but have avoided the controversy by not taking it for my LatD.

    Recently there was a debate about Daemon Icon's allowing the first turn charge. The concensus was that it did not because Daemons are RESERVES. The icon allows for the skipping of the roll, but still does not let them summon first turn.

    If this is the case then why wouldn't Improved Comms work for bringing in Daemons from reserves?

    Improved comms does not specify how the reserves come in: deep strike, table edge or daemonic summoning.

    So I guess I could restate the question as: Are Daemons reserves that have special rules for comming into play, or are they something else entirely, and if so what?
    I actually think it's incredibly fluffy.
    I like the idea of technology kind of merging with the immateria through depraved sacrifices. I like the idea of some blood soaked cultists shouting chants, incantations and mantras into a coms device and it actually working.
    It's scary, kinda like silent hill.
    I say use your imagination and it's ok.
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    Senior Member JORMAGI's Avatar
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    I admit the fluff behind it at first glance is kinda shakey, but when I think about it, it actually is on more solid ground that at first glance. Imperial FTL communication is achieved by psykers communicating with each other through the warp. . . or something like Karmoons idea.

    But from a Game mechanical point of view I can't see why it wouldn't work if daemons are in fact reserves.
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    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    very interesting question, though I can see both sides of the issue, I think it is allowed because there is no specification. If you let your immagination run wild you can come up with any NUMBER of reasons for it, including "counts as" yes, its comms, but it is actually a beacon that calls into the warp too.
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    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    It has to work both ways with the Daemon Icon binded daemons (??!).
    If daemons are special and not reserves, then they can't use the coms to help them, BUT they can be summoned on turn 1.
    If daemons are in reserve, then they can only be brought onto the field turn 2+, BUT coms will help them.
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    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karmoon
    It has to work both ways with the Daemon Icon binded daemons (??!).
    If daemons are special and not reserves, then they can't use the coms to help them, BUT they can be summoned on turn 1.
    If daemons are in reserve, then they can only be brought onto the field turn 2+, BUT coms will help them.

    pg 12 CSM codex, Daemon summoning, second sentence. Daemons start in reserve.
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    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theyak
    pg 12 CSM codex, Daemon summoning, second sentence. Daemons start in reserve.
    I'm fully aware of this. It's just that there are some less scrupulous people that deem Daemon icon binded daemons are special and somehow not to be started in reserves.
    But that's the evidense to support that com functions would work.
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  11. #10
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    Exactly, all daemons are in reserve, even the one "bound to the icon" I don't think that changes anything they don't even become available to even roll for them until turn 2, so its not an option to bring them in. I find it a seriously beardy attempt to bend the rules, and I would not allow it against me.
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