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Over the past several games, I have been delighted with how my plasma bearing havocs have performed. They have always made their points back and leave smoking stumps where MEQ squads used to be. But it was only when they ran around a corner, jumped a landspeeder and shot the b’jesus out of it that I realised they were like short ranged mobile autocannons (I’m a slow learner)
So I’ve started comparing plasma toting havocs VS Autocannon Havocs:Plasma Pros:
* Cheaper by ~20pts
* Versatile – not just useful against vehicles. Excellent AP means that whole terminator and marines squads can be exterminated quite effectively.
* An aspiring champion can be added and would add something to the squad as they are likely to see assault action (although this increases the cost to 8 more points than Autocannon havocs (P.Fist Champ)) <- raised by Shoal07
* Self frying potential
* Shorter range – infiltrate almost mandatory
* Potential of reprisal higher (as operating at shorter range)As an Alpha legion player, I can affort to have Infiltrate as well as Tank hunters and a MoCU. For this reason, I think I may try the risky option of having 2 squads of plasma havocs fielded in this way and see how they work. In my past experience, by the time they fry themselves, they’ve more or less accomplished their job – so I think it’s worth it.Autocannon pros:
* Excellent Rage – infiltrate not necessary
* Reliable (tried and tested. No melt down. Reprisal chance lower as operating from far away)
* Only average AP – no help against Terminators or Marines
* Static – moving will waste an entire turn of shooting. Unable to use cover and surprise * attacks to full potential. Long range means that cover may severely hamper LOS.
* A Fair bit more expensive – 20pts.
I’d just like everyone’s opinions on what they think of this idea please.
Last edited by Karmoon; August 17th, 2006 at 13:09.
No it's a good point.Originally Posted by Shoal07
The comparison is:
8 man with 4x either plasma rifle/autocannon. Tank hunter vet skill and infiltrate/MoC
You raise an excellent point though Shoal, so you can have a cookie.
Lets see, Plasma has better Ap, and with tank hunters both CAN damage 14 armour (Plasma can only glance though, autocannons can penetrate)Originally Posted by Shoal07
Personally i run both in my army, i also run a squad with missile launchers (Useful for 14 armour, though lascannons would be better, i mostly use them just because i have the models ^.^)
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the difference between autocannons and Plasma guns is the role the squad has/is able to perform on the field.
Plasma Guns are Rapid Fire weapons, Autocannons are heavy weapons.
Plasma Guns are a short range fire support weapon that can take on light vehicles and reliable kill heavily armored targets (terminators). And can be shot on the move (albeit at shorter range)
Autocannons are long range support weapons designed to take on light vehicles and medium armored targets (deadly against 'nid warriors). But the squad needs to be stationary.
So if you have an infiltrating or close combat or middle range (rapid fire) army or need close support, you might want to invest in plasma guns (and maybe infiltrate), if you decide to sit back and shoot you might want to invest in the autocannons (and maybe tank hunters and/or night vision).
Bsaically you need to decide which role the squad(s) is (are) supposed to have on the field.
Shut up and play.
How did you come to that conclusion, seeing as plasma and auto cannon's both have the same strength value with a maximum penetration of 14 with tank hunter...Originally Posted by R1p70r
''It begs the question; why would the emperor permit something quite so dangerous and untamed to exist? And that would be to take down another Space Marine Legion."
Exactly what happened to me. There i was rolling away and i even said to my mate, "it's like shooting with an auto... *click*...cannon" :w00t:Originally Posted by mrdave
Personaly i would go with autocannons, With the size and points cost of your squad, i wouldnt want them upclose and personal with something like a full las preditor or chimera with some veterians guardmen with 3 plasma guns in it.
Also for plasma to be as effective against tanks you have to get within 12" Which isnt too hard with infiltrate... but without that (or in alpha missions) youll have along way to walk... Plus the rest of us (non-Alpha legion players) cant take a mark & infiltrate & tank hunters....
The autocannon havocs have always worked out well for me. What you call average AP (4) will punch thru the armour of about 60(ISH)% of the squads in the game.. save termi's, marines and crons.
I think it really depends on what you face... If your metagame includes over 50% MEQ armies, i would go with plasma... However if your facing an even mix you would do better to take autocannons where longer range would be much better against Tau, Orks, Nids, Guard, and so on....
Just my opinion.
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You know, everytime you post something about the Alpha Legion, it's much like watching myself learning the tricks of the army almost a year ago. I was over joyed when I realized that Plasma Guns = mobile Autocannons.Originally Posted by Karmoon
The biggest difference between the two is that the Autocannons perform better over the course of the game. They don't fry your marine, have a low threat rate (seriously - how many times have you heard "Autocannons? What the hell are those? Weak Heavy Bolters or something?"), and don't have to worry quite so much about being assaulted.
Plasma squads on the other hand have a low survival rate. Not only do they end up frying themselves more often than not, the rapid fire range puts them within charging distance of the enemy. This of course makes a Champion mandatory. Typically, I consider these squads lucky if they have more than one gun left by turn 3, and down right blessed if they're a scoring unit past turn 4.
It's really a matter of which will serve you better. Can you afford to pay for a unit that won't be scoring at the end of the game? Because that's a very likely possibility. Do you need a unit that can hold objectives in your own territory and still contribute to the fight?
Myself, I ended up going with 2 plasma squads for awhile. I seriously lacked any real AP value, and the mass AP2 was necessary. After a few games, I realized that I wasn't able to hold my own deployment zone, and that I was giving a lot of victory points to my opponent, so I opted for the 2x Plasma Troops squads instead + 4x Autocannon Havocs, and haven't looked back.