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  1. #1
    Pomogromogranite! Aether-Moose's Avatar
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    Can't seem to win...

    Hey guys, I know this might be seen as a ranting/complaining thread, but I hope now. I just played 4 games with my 1500 Point Alpha Legion Army (1500 Points - Alpha Legion - First Try.), and lost all of them. I know this dosn't seem like much, but I usually don't do THIS bad.

    I refuse to blame it on luck, and I know that one possabillity is that I'm a bad tactician, or that I have a bad army list. I want to hear what you guys think and if you can help me at all.

    3 of the games were just meatgrinders [I guess you could call 'em test games], and the last was CoD Firesweep [Omega]. My opponents were DE, Tyranids, Guard, and in the last game guard and Tyranids [Respectively]. I really can't see anything wrong with the list, so I'm forced to question my own competence.

    Thanks for your help again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett on Quidditch
    I couldn't help but imagine some poor guy looking up to find a Badger hurtling towards him, about to wrap itself around his skull.
    [ 1500pt. Chaos List, C&C! ]
    -=W: 2 -D: 0- L: 3=-

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  3. #2
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    Moose, I'm sorry to hear that you're having such a hard time with your list, in all honesty it is a strong list.

    Here are my suggestions:
    1) You say you like aggressive styles of play, the alpha legion army you have is DEFINITELY aggressive, but with the shooting, NOT the assault. Your primary method of causing damage is with the gunfire, and then going in to clean up the remnants with your mobile elements.

    2) when you place terrain, you NEED to place it in a fashion that clears out as much area as you can to try to have positions where you can force your oponent in the open and you in cover. When you chose table corners, even though you infiltrate chose a corner that puts them at a disadvantage.

    3) Infiltrating with that particular army is NOT about getting close, its about trapping them into coming in your massed volume of fire and supporting those shooting elements with your assaulters, play a "refused flank" strategy, put ALL of your elements in one area so they can all support eachother, make sure all of your long range fire have redundancy across lanes of fire so you can concentrate fire on units when need be.

    4) Have target priorities, look at your oponent's forces and discern which ones are going to be trouble for you. Do they have big ord. tanks? or fast movers? BLOW the crap out of them first, don't just put your one guys in LOS of that one thing and leave them dangling, chose your main priority of targets and then deploy around that. Tyranids, you should set up WAY back with as little terrain between you and them decimate their skitterers, and then hose down their TMCs move in for the surround-and- pound with a MINIMUM of 2 squads with powerfists(squash)

    I-guard, whic ever squad of autocannons you place in LOS of their tanks, make SURE you have back up long-guns in form of either oblits, or fast movers such as raptors to go in and finish the job that they can't always do(statistics DO fail you from time to time).

    Marines: you know what? 8 autocannon shots, 6 hits and 5 wounds should cause 2 casualties a turn, marines HATE taking casualties, make them take saves, they will eventually fail them. Besides, that's what your 2x meltagun assault squads are for, after they have taken a couple rounds of casualties, move up 6, hose them down and assault the remainders.

    Tau, well, your oblits and your autocannons should MOP up the skimmers.

    General tips:
    ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS keep your long guns IN COVER or they will die.
    Your assault elements should either be right in front or together hitting a flank.
    Never leave your lord alone to charge, always have raptors or your assaulters near by to help.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  4. #3
    Pomogromogranite! Aether-Moose's Avatar
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    Thanks yak, all of those are very strong points, and, surprisingly, I don't think I've been following any of them...

    Once again, thank you very very much for your help.

    On a seperate note, I have decided to remove the Raptors from my list, they are just way too big of a point sink. Thing is, I can't decide what to get in their place. I was thinking:

    - Raptors [274 Points left]
    - 8 Man CSM squad with Flamers and Fisty Champ [442 Points left]
    + 6 CSMs, Bolters, 2x Plasma, Infiltrate, MoCU [326 Points left]
    + Daemonic Rune for the Lord [This is purely because every, EVERY game I have played with this army, the lord has gotten Insta-killed on turn 1 or 2. I am not exaggerating] [291 Points left]
    + Another 6 man 2x Plasma squad with MoCU and Infiltrate [175 Points left]
    + 2x Havocs to each squad [99 Points left]
    + Another Obliterator [?] [29 Points left]
    + Furious Charge on one of the 2x Melta Assault squads [?] [5 Points left]
    + Daemonic Visage on the Lord [0 Points left]

    Unless I did some faulty math, this leaves me right at 1500 Points. Any thoughts/ I think this will make the list much shootier [Heh, shootier] and in generally, more effective. Thanks again for your thoguhts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett on Quidditch
    I couldn't help but imagine some poor guy looking up to find a Badger hurtling towards him, about to wrap itself around his skull.
    [ 1500pt. Chaos List, C&C! ]
    -=W: 2 -D: 0- L: 3=-

  5. #4
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    385 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Æther-MØØSE
    Thanks yak, all of those are very strong points, and, surprisingly, I don't think I've been following any of them...

    Once again, thank you very very much for your help.

    On a seperate note, I have decided to remove the Raptors from my list, they are just way too big of a point sink. Thing is, I can't decide what to get in their place. I was thinking:

    - Raptors [274 Points left]
    Fine I don't advocate adding raptors until 1850 anyhow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Æther-MØØSE

    - 8 Man CSM squad with Flamers and Fisty Champ [442 Points left]
    I think this is a poor choice to remove, just swap the flamers out for something else like 2x meltaguns
    Quote Originally Posted by Æther-MØØSE

    + 6 CSMs, Bolters, 2x Plasma, Infiltrate, MoCU [326 Points left]
    I think this is a poor exchange for the 8-man squad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Æther-MØØSE
    + Daemonic Rune for the Lord [This is purely because every, EVERY game I have played with this army, the lord has gotten Insta-killed on turn 1 or 2. I am not exaggerating] [291 Points left]
    You NEED to think of the lord as an expendable asset. BUT don't send him into squads alone without support, or with a hidden fist surrounded by guys you can't clear out.
    He should be used as a counter charge unit or to exclusively hit weak squads to get rid of them, the rune is a very poor choice for this pionts level. He should never be in position to be shot at by high Str ranged weaponary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Æther-MØØSE

    + Another 6 man 2x Plasma squad with MoCU and Infiltrate [175 Points left]
    Though 2 - 6man squads is different, I think you were far better off with 8-man squads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Æther-MØØSE

    + 2x Havocs to each squad [99 Points left]
    Yes, this should have been done to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Æther-MØØSE

    + Another Obliterator [?] [29 Points left]
    yes, 3 obliterators is a good choice for 1500pts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Æther-MØØSE

    + Furious Charge on one of the 2x Melta Assault squads [?] [5 Points left]
    Just fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Æther-MØØSE

    + Daemonic Visage on the Lord [0 Points left]

    Unless I did some faulty math, this leaves me right at 1500 Points. Any thoughts/ I think this will make the list much shootier [Heh, shootier] and in generally, more effective. Thanks again for your thoguhts.
    Remember that the 2-plasma squads are throw away squads, empty shells that will kill itself. and then now you're not left with any mobile effective squads that can challenge other reasonably equipped squads.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  6. #5
    Pomogromogranite! Aether-Moose's Avatar
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    Ok, ok. I'll keep the 8 man squads, but then should I just drop the second Plasma squad, or chage it into ANOTHER 8 mna Melta squad?

    And you say I have no mobility, yet you tell me to remove the Raptors. I can't really think of anythign else that would be wise at this point level that is very moble...
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett on Quidditch
    I couldn't help but imagine some poor guy looking up to find a Badger hurtling towards him, about to wrap itself around his skull.
    [ 1500pt. Chaos List, C&C! ]
    -=W: 2 -D: 0- L: 3=-

  7. #6
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to get down on you, moose, but realize that the 2x plasma minimum squads take a bit more finesse to play, and from what you are saying, I'm trying to suggest options that have the least chance of stuff going wrong. No, the raptors aren't your only option of mobility, I was more or less talking about squads that are free to move to where they want without fear of not being able to shoot. 2x melta squads are great for this.
    I would try fitting out as many 8-man squads in there first of all, and then move from there.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  8. #7
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Moose,
    I also started playing Alpha Legion, and not long ago. I too was shocked at how aggresive they were at shooting and pinning the enemy down. When people play Chaos they think "Rawr! Mutations! Pointy Sticks! I’ll grind them into peanut butter!”. But Alpha Legion play with a lot more finesse and elegance than that.
    But they’re not helpless in CC. Marines are as hard as nails and with a powerfist you can even make carnifexes cry.

    I have to totally agree with The Yak when he said that Alpha legion are the most rewarding army to play with. They are equipped to deal with any type of situation. Your list looks great. I would love to play with it…. Also your models

    Remember, with Alpha Legion, psychology is also a big bonus for you. Deploying against an entirely infiltrating army is quite daunting and you get to match up your strong units against their weaker units. Even if they have a couple of infiltrating squads – it won’t be as much as you.
    When the enemy contracts – you expand. When the enemy expands – you contract. Your list, in my opinion, definitely has what it takes maybe you just need a bit more confidence and need to gel with what the units are good at or bad at a little more.

    I don’t want to get too spiritual on your hiney. The Yak has given you excellent tactical advice – so think of him as your commander. But I also strongly rate psychology. Like with so many things, if you go to the battle thinking you’re going to lose – it’s very easy for that to happen. So think of me like your Chaos Chaplain or something lol.

    Good luck Moose, and hang in there
    LO Rules

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyric
    I'm taking leave of my senses and shall be out of my mind until further notice.

  9. #8
    Pomogromogranite! Aether-Moose's Avatar
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    Lol, thanks Karmoon. I guess I have been kkinda down lately, mught be due to the fact that I can't seem to beat my Tyranid playeing friend. But now I'm a bit more confident.

    I guess that my biggest issue with this army is that I really want to assault ASAP [Not like "I want to!" but I'm used to it] with my Troops, and I kinda feel like they can't do much with their 12" range aside from assaulting.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't know what to do with my troops. Do I shoot, or assault?
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett on Quidditch
    I couldn't help but imagine some poor guy looking up to find a Badger hurtling towards him, about to wrap itself around his skull.
    [ 1500pt. Chaos List, C&C! ]
    -=W: 2 -D: 0- L: 3=-

  10. #9
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Like I said, you play according to your friend with a force which can respond to anything.
    With Alpha Legion, deploying takes a much more chess like element.

    For example, you see Enemy unit A that needs to be assaulted, so you might want to place some Assault marines nearby, however, you notice that they're being covered by a shooty enemy unit B, so you decide it would be better to hold your assault marines back a little and using them to draw unit A into a shooty fireline of your own. E voila - You're thinking ahead, and sculpting the flow of the game into how you want it to go.

    The Yak has said this multiple times I'm sure, but, this is why I really rate a 8 man squad with a Fisty Champ, Plasma and H. Bolter. They simply do everything well and when they work in tandem, they're very usefull. It's not as 'advance-shoot-advance-shoot-assault' friendly, BUT a squad like this will really help when you have to stay back and shoot or if you need to bust a tank nearby. If the flow of the game doesn't go your way, you'll have squads who can still reply to every calling. Nothing worse than having an assault squad where you need guns.

    Against Nids, you HAVE to stay back and shoot. Only assault when the time is exactly right. Your lord is a CC king BUT, against nids he must be on counter attack and strike out only when it's tactically viable. You can charge in, damage a few things and get instasquished OR you can counter attack, hold off the enemy for 1-2 rounds and give your autocannon boys more chance to shoot the heebiejeebies into something.

    So in answer to your question, what do i do with my troops? The answer is simply - shoot when you need to, and kick them in the head when you need to. Marines have a BS equal to their WS, and any guard player would scratch out his own eyes to have all guardsmen at BS4.

    Meh.. I'm sure the Yak will have plenty more experienced thing to say. I'm still an Alpha newbie. :w00t:
    LO Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    Anyone who's as loyal and motivated to doing what they love as you are is respectable in my book
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyric
    I'm taking leave of my senses and shall be out of my mind until further notice.

  11. #10
    Pomogromogranite! Aether-Moose's Avatar
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    Ah, I get it now. Thanks Karmoon.

    Sooo... Do you guys think I shoudl stick with 3 8 Man Assaulty sqauds and one 6 man Plasma squad, or maybe drop the plasma squad for a Plasma/HB ssquad? Troops... so complicated...
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett on Quidditch
    I couldn't help but imagine some poor guy looking up to find a Badger hurtling towards him, about to wrap itself around his skull.
    [ 1500pt. Chaos List, C&C! ]
    -=W: 2 -D: 0- L: 3=-

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