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I've been deciding on what to do for an undivided chaos army and I find the Iron Warriors to be a really cool army, but the thing is alot of players cry chesse with Iron Warriors, so I want to do an Iron Warriors army, but how do I make a powerful IW army without getting cries of chesse, also I want to have a good number of assualty units in my as well so I want it to be some what balanced, can any IW players lend me a hand with this?
FIRST, I don't believe in "cheese". There are army designs that make prodigious use of the advantages granted to it.
Iron warriors have the following advantages granted: an extra heavy support slot and the restrictions to obliterators removed.
A "typically cheesy" IW army will make use of 9 obliterators, and 4 Heavy support choices and one pimped out Lord(usually statured, flighted and dreadaxed).
Now, people declare and cry cheese but this makes for a VERY low model count and fragile army that does a few things very VERY well, but other things it fails utterly.
One, is that there are going to be relatively few models on the board, your mobility will stink, your ability to capture objectives in a timely manner will suffer, and, if something that can contest in CC with your lord makes it in to CC, kiss your force good bye.
To further illustrate the general term "cheese" my alpha legion army has been called cheesy on occasion because it has a theme and certain army builds will have a natural disadvantage against it. I built my army for pure balance in mind, but "cheese" is in the eye of the beholder, it is an opinion of balance.
That(9oblits, 4 Heavies) is a very typical formula followed by players that like to take advantage of every single oportunity afforded to them without considering balance.
I feel that an IW army that fields 2 heavy choices, 2 squads of 3, or 3 squads of 2 obliterators one squad of raptors and fill the rest with troops is a far better combination at (roughly) 2000pts than the one above. It has numbers, it has a very strong shooty element, it has mobility, AND if you have your marines with CCW+ bp, AC with PF, it can hold up in assaults reasonably well. Back that up with a hidden counter assault lord and bingo, you've got a really hard as nails force.
Do you have an idea of theme for your IW that you would like to ascribe to? Big shooty? assaulting(yes, they can do this rather well, too) give us some of your ideas so we can help direct you in the way in which you want to build your force. Because its your force and it will be that much better when you design its concept and see it through.
W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
Hmm Iron warriors tend to get crys of cheese from having 9 obliterators, A vindicator, basilisk, and whatever other big guns they can cram into the point value of the battle.
Also realize that most people that cry cheese, do so based on the armies reputation/sore loosership. They may cry cheese before they even face you/watch you play. . . and if you win they must be right eh?
If you beat them with Iron warriors they're gonna cry cheese no matter how balanced your list is.
My point is don't be overly concerned about what the cheese cryers say, and don't cripple yourself just to keep them happy. It isn't worth it.
That said, I am a strong advocate for balanced army compositions, and I feel that Iron warriors are no different in this regard. The reason is not the avoidance of "Cheese" but rather to be ready for any situation. So that you can win against a wider variety of foes.
Obliterators are a very good unit, but don't forget that meltaguns & lascannons & the like burn right through them at an alarming rate.
The borrowed tanks are good, but are still valued at the points you pay for them. . . they don't suddenly become better because they are in the hands of Iron Warriors.
The added options of Iron warriors come at the cost of loosing the cult marks & daemons.
My point is:
Do what you would like with them, but I think balanced is the best way to go.
As I'm not an Iron warriors player I will abstain from giving more specific advice.
Votewar MKV 2nd place. . .
Back from internet limbo, and glad to be here.
Hey, im an iron warrior player.
My list id like to see as competative but it is called cheesy somtimes, Id only include two oblits in the force, separte units theyll do well for you.
Perhaps try a terminator squad 6 strong with two reaper autocannons and chainfists a asp with strength and the squad with furious. Teleport homer them in on wither some beefy marines or a raptor squad (both would be better for options.).
Id highly advise both a preditor and a defiler. I also use a Mhull vidny which is brilliant!
Tell us how you want your army to feel? shooty, middle ground, assualt, heavy weapons or a big mixed bag?
I want my IW army to be balanced to have a good amount of shooty and assault since I like the idea of IW squads with a powerfist champ, as well as the Oblits and the use of Imperial Vehicles, I don't want it to be overly shooty or assualty but a good balance of the two.
Here is a list of options id advise taking for each slot in the FOC for your desired army composition.I want my IW army to be balanced to have a good amount of shooty and assault since I like the idea of IW squads with a powerfist champ, as well as the Oblits and the use of Imperial Vehicles, I don't want it to be overly shooty or assualty but a good balance of the two.
You could go with a Daemon prince with darkblade/dreadaxe/two close combat weapons. You definatley want him to be S6 though then S8 with Darkblade.
A Iron warriors sorc is good, mine (LT) uses flight and WOC. I also gave him a power weapon, strength and resilience and a CCW aswell. He is quite good when used correctly.
Ive tried Terminator leaders, they are very good in combat but seem to lack IMHO, they need either a good solid tele homer or a LR to get the job done properly.
What i use 9/10 is a Kai gunner. Strength resilence power weapon. Nice and cheap at 110 points, he kills 1-2 marines a turn shooting and 2-3 in combat.
Oblits, i take two at 1000 points, they work very well on there own. Take two in two seperate units.
You can use termies if you want, I use them in games that i just want to have a laugh in. Termies are expensive and fall over easily to plasma weapons, which most armies have an abundance of. When i take them, i use five, One asp with strength, three guys as they come and one with reaper and chainfist. The whole squad has Furious charge. I walk them across the battlefield, hiding behind cover and such unitl its time to strike.
I good unit size is six though with an extra reaper chainfister. I dont have this yet as i made mine out of the SM termie box set.
Dont take power armoured chosen, they can do little more than marines can at twice the cost.
Possesed with talons in a rhino is a great unit. Give the aspiring champion mutation aswell.
I mainly use 8 man teams with two plasma guns with no champions. You want a mixed bag army so heres my run down.
dual plasma teams are very good units IMHO, the work best when marching up to the enemy and hiding in cover while blasting them into chunks.
I use 5 man lascannon teams to target vehicles and lone characters after ive killed retinues and such.
I somtimes use a dual melta squad, It has a aspiring champion with powerfist, two meltas and the rest have ccws, They all have infiltrate. Works well when the enemy has a weak spot in there deployment you can abuse.
I would always adivse power fist champions if you intend to get into combat.
I very rarely use my single fast slot. when i do i take infiltrating raptors armed for combat. But recently ive been looking into Bikes, Melta guns and the Aspiring champion with a fist would be very good in all situations. Id suggest a unit size of 5 or 6.
I dislike the bassilisk.
I love the vindy with Mhull and the defiler. (take them nearly every game!)
I use a TW las and las sponsoned pred. Its nice with Mhull.
Havocs with Autocannons and Tank hunters are somthing special.
In this section id suggest you make your own mind up. Choose what you like the looks/rules of.
If i made an army for a mixed bag i would take.
Two oblits as seperate units.
Two units of the lascannon troops
Two units of the melta troops
Raptors without infiltrate to accompany the Sorc, Two meltas Champion with fist and 3 bodies
Havocs with autocannons and TH
Vindy with Mhull or Dpossesion.
I hope i have helped there.
Not mention that every player I've met are basically mentally challenged and whine when they lose.
Lictor, not every player out there is a poor sport, and it sucks to lose, we all have our off days and when you take an army you've worked hard on and are sure is strong and you get beaten it sucks even worse. People are likely to cry cheese against any given army that they are being routed by, no matter the composition or playstyle.Originally Posted by LictorInTheGrass
Try empathising and try to understand why people whine and complain, and evaluate if you played like a vicious bloodthirsty murderer. Sometimes, its better to ease off towards the end if you know you will win and let your oponent have some dignity.
And know the difference between poor sportsmanship and frustration.
W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
The comment was reference to the sore loser comment earlier. I just don't like the majority of other chaos players ive meant so far where i live. either they just talk and dont play, or they dont do anything at all.