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  1. #1
    Member Chuffles2's Avatar
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    Problem with Khornate Daemon prince

    I'm kind of new to World eaters and I have a question, I've been trying to make a solid list to take on all-comers and have come across the problem that I want to give my daemon prince EVERYTHING and I know I can't, so I was wondering if some of the veterans could give me some advice on what weapons/daemonic gifts/and veteran skills to give him in order to make him a solid, competitive, and also beastly unit without going over the limit. Some personal experience on what has worked for you guys in the past would also be cool. thanks in advance.

    "We are the Ultramarines," called Uriel. "And no foe can stand against us while we keep faith with the emperor." - Brother-Captain Uriel Ventris of the Ultramarines Fourth Company.

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    Well, I normally use Nurgle, Slaanesh, or unmarked HQs, but Khorne can't be that different.

    The mandatory upgrades for a Chaos HQ are:
    Daemonic Resilience/Mark of Nurgle
    Daemonic Speed
    Daemonic Strength + Daemon Weapon/Power Weapon/Claws OR Dark Blade

    Good upgrades but not mandatory:
    Daemonic Aura
    Daemonic Mutation
    Spiky Bits (take this before Mutation)

    Khorne upgrades that are really excellent:
    Feel No Pain

    Unless you are giving him Daemonic Stature, you usually want to give him a few upgrades as possible.

    My HQ at 1500 points and lower is just this:
    Chaos Lieutenant
    Mark of Nurgle
    Manreaper
    Daemonic Strength
    Daemonic Speed
    Frags
    Open up in the name of the Lawl!

  4. #3
    Eternal Crusader Helbrecht's Avatar
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    MoK, D.Stature, Dread axe or Berserker glaive, furious charge, D.Speed and D.Aura (if not using Glaive), D.Mutation, Frag grenades.
    Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x

  5. #4
    Member Lt Smash's Avatar
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    Unfortunatly, Berserker Glaive cant go with speed. (or any movement enhancers for that matter)

    My lord is as Follows:

    Mark of Khorne
    Berserker Glaive
    Daemonic Armour
    Daemonic Strength
    Daemonic Stature
    Daemonic Mutation
    Feel no Pain
    Collar of Khorne

    200 points. Isn't uber fast like other ones but it doesn't really need to be, as this guy is REALLY hard to kill. If you want a fast one use a dreadaxe, and not a glaive. Then use either speed or Flight.

    EDIT: no more speed
    Last edited by Lt Smash; October 9th, 2006 at 06:39.

    ... There's no place like 127.0.0.1

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    Member Chuffles2's Avatar
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    How come your lord has the berserker glaive with daemonic speed?
    "We are the Ultramarines," called Uriel. "And no foe can stand against us while we keep faith with the emperor." - Brother-Captain Uriel Ventris of the Ultramarines Fourth Company.

  7. #6
    señor brushman! brushman's Avatar
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    I'm kind of new to World eaters and I have a question, I've been trying to make a solid list to take on all-comers and have come across the problem that I want to give my daemon prince EVERYTHING and I know I can't, so I was wondering if some of the veterans could give me some advice on what weapons/daemonic gifts/and veteran skills to give him in order to make him a solid, competitive, and also beastly unit without going over the limit. Some personal experience on what has worked for you guys in the past would also be cool. thanks in advance.
    Alright, lets see if I can help you out a bit

    First off, you want to keep your Chaos Lord cheap, yet powerful. A good balance will equal the most effective lord you can get. It may be tempting to load up your Lord with as much goodies as possible, but this usually isn't the route to go. It will soak up a lot of points that would be more worth it in other areas of your army.

    In smaller games (100 you should go with a Lt., but in larger games (1000+) then it's ok to go with a more expensive lord. And in large games of around 2000+, you could even take multiple HQ's.

    Mark of Khorne: Gives him fearlessness, and an extra attack. Moves towards the enemy faster, and always uses sweeping advance. Some good and bad, but overall for a Khorne army it's helpful. Fearlessness makes it so he won't run, and the other attack helps in close combat. He gets to the enemy faster as well, but because you can't control the direction it can be hard to control.

    You want to know about weapons, daemonic gifts, and veteran skills, so I'll go through those, but first, I want to make sure you understand all the basic stats in your daemon prince that make him powerful in close combat. :yes:

    Strength: High strength values make it easier and more reliable to cause wounds which result in casualties, making your Lord more powerful. Chaos Lords, happen to be able to buy several upgrades which increase their strength higher and higher, and that's without using things like powerfists. This gives them an advantage over other enemy characters, such as a Space Marine Captain.

    Attacks: The number of attacks and the kind of attacks, are what matter here. Chaos Lords are very renowned for their capability to have ridiculous numbers of attacks, ranging from a humble 3 or 4 upwards of 8 to 10, from a single chaos prince/lord. The kind of attacks are also devastating and well reputed of chaos lords, due to the mighty power of daemonic weapons which make all those attacks (which hit easily thanks to high weapon skil) do even more damage. The ability to ignore armor saves, ignore invulnerable saves, re-roll failed wounds, insta-kill opponents, etc are all very potent and powerful kinds of attacks, which can be very effective.

    Weapon Skill: Basically if your WS is higher than their's, you're hitting easier with a 3+. If you have very high weapon skill, it's harder for your opponent to hit you back because then they will usually need 5+. If your weapon skill is one more than double your opponent's weapon skill, they hit you on 5's. It doesn't get any worse then 5+ however and the best it can get is 3+. Most things hit on 4's on average. Anyway, one thing all our monstrous creatures tend to have in common, is their ease to hit, and their difficulty to be hit. It's not the case with every single one, but it is in many of them. Chaos Lords have a high weapon skill and typically hit their opponents on 3's, making them very potent in combat and allowing themselves to use destructive weapons to powerful potential.

    Initiative: If you hit first, you can kill things first and you then have little striking back at you and sometimes, nothing hitting back. The faster and harder you hit, the better in combat you will be overall. Choas Lords and Daemon Princes have a high initiative, which allows them to crunch through almost all normal infantry hitting before they do. And they can buy upgrades which can raise this value even more, just in case we want to ensure it. This is another thing that makes princes/lords so potent.

    Wounds: Kind've like toughness in the way of making your Lord harder to destroy, but in a different way. It makes it so you can take more wounds before dieing which makes it harder for your prince to be destroyed.

    Toughness: Toughness makes it harder for your opponent to wound you. The higher the touchness, the higher rolls he'll be needing to be able to wound. It makes your character harder to destroy, so he can last longer and do more damage in close combat. Chaos has access to things which raise the toughness - another advantage.

    Movement: Chaos lords have the standard movement; however, they can be modified to be very fast. This makes them beable to get into close combat quicker taking less damage on the way earlier in the game overall making a better daemon prince.

    Saves: Chaos Princes already start out with a very good save, but they can make it even better. They have many gifts and wargear that can give them an invulnerable save, and also a better armour save. If you have a good save model, accompanied by a good toughness and wounds, then you have one prince to kill.


    Now, we can go over daemon gifts, weapons, and veteran abilities that work well for Khorne.

    Veteran Abilities: 3 main veteran abilities I consider when building my chaos lord, is Infiltrate, Furious Charge, and Move through cover. Infiltrate I often use with my Death Guard. It gets him up the field with the rest of my army (my deathguard force usually infiltrates), and makes it so he can assault much quicker. Move through cover obvioulsy helps him move through difficult terrain. Another thing that helps your chaos lord get into assault sooner, and then finally furious charge. Makes your chaos lord quicker, and stronger on the charge. For Khorne, the main one you'll want to consider is Furious Charge if you have the points.

    Weapons and Wargear: Important Wargear and Weapons for Khorne include: Power Weapon, CCW/Bolt Pistol, grenades, spiky bits.

    The Power Weapon is good, and a cheap alternitive to a more expensive weapon. Good for Lt's, but I prefer sometrhing else on lords. if you have a ccw on your lord and it's not statured, then might as well add in a bolt pistol to get that extra attack. Spiky bits is good. It's cheaper then master crafting a weapon, and d. mutation, and almost just as good.

    And then Daemon Gifts, and Gifts of the Gods.

    Daemonic Stature: For a very low price (the price of a power weapon), the Lord becomes a Daemon Prince instantly, raising his WS, S and T values and allowing him to ignore armor saves. While it's powerful, it has the drawbacks of being a monstrous creature (you can always be seen, shot, etc). Overall, this is one of the better cost effective gifts and many princes use a variation including D. Stature.

    Daemonic Strength: Chaos Lords can upgrade to have a better strength by this gift. That means, we have much higher chances to wound. This can really help, especially combined with other strength enhancing upgrades, and a powerweapon or daemon weapon.

    Daemonic Resilience: Extra toughness means staying on the board longer. Staying on the board longer means doing more damage overall. Unfortunatley, this doens't help against instant kill purposes, but it does make him harder to wound in cc. A worthy upgrade to use.

    Daemonic Speed / Daemonic Flight: These upgrades make your prince faster, as you may have guessed by the name. I prefer speed though. It lets you fleet and gives you a 12" charge range. Flight on the other hand is great for shooty princes, for example one with a Kai Gun.

    Daemonic Aura: This can help greatly as you'll most likeley see power weapons or other weapons that ignore armour saves in close combat. It's always nice to have a invulnerable save. I prefer this over D. Armour if you have to choose one over the other.

    Daemonic Essence: This adds another wound making him last longer, and like resilence, makes him be able to do more damage overall sense he'll be staying alive longer.

    Cult/Legion Gifts: These are special wargear that you can get from a certain legion, or cult. They can also be very potential, and if your playing a certain legion then worth considering on your lord. Play around with them, and see what works well. (to tell the truth, it's just an excuse to skip going through these :tongue


    Now, to give you an idea on what some Khorne lords would look like, here's some examples.


    Non-statured Chaos Lord (Daemon Prince) - 221 points.
    -Mark of Khorne
    Daemonic Speed
    Daemonic Strength
    Daemonic Resilience
    Daemonic Essence
    Daemonic Mutation
    Daemonic Aura
    Feel No Pain
    Collar of Khorne
    Master-Crafted Pair of Lighting Claws
    Spikzy Bits
    Frag Grenades

    Cannot be targeted very easily (not at all if he's behind your other models); who can assault up to 24 inches into assault. He's S5/T5 with 4 wounds, and has a base of 6 attacks, and he get's 7 attacks on the charge. To make it work, he can re-roll two of those missed attacks (meaning it's likely he'll hit nearly every attack every time hitting on 3's). His lighting claws allow him to re-roll every single wound, so S5 re-rollable wounds after hitting 6 or 7 times means you will level everything within 2 inches of you. He has the normal 3+/5+ save and a feel no pain 4+ save and can nullify psychic powers on 2+ and force weapons do nothing to him. He's quite expensive, but he gets the job done.


    Chaos Lord (Daemon Prince) - 180 points.
    -Mark of Khorne
    Berserker Glaive
    Daemonic Stature
    Daemonic Essence
    Daemonic Resilience
    Daemonic Strength
    Feel No Pain
    Spiky Bitz

    He moves 6 inches +D6 inches every turn; He has 7 base attacks, 8 on the charge. He's S6/T6 and has a 3+/4+ save, with an added 4+ feel no pain save on top of that. He can re-roll a miss in combat. Rather common Khorne prince, and good for games of 1250+.

    And then, a cheap Lt.

    Chaos Lt.
    -Mark of Khorne
    D. Aura
    D. Strength
    D. Speed
    Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
    Frag Grenades
    =121

    Cheaper then the other lords, but still somewhat expensive for a 1000 point game. you could trim him down by removing any of the d. gifts. Speed or aura if you put him in a squad. Otherwise, he's pretty cheap. Ignores armour saves, fast, good strength, invulneralbe save.

    you could also form a shooting based lord, but I would urge against it for Khorne.


    That's all Goodluck, hopefully you'll enjoy your daemon prince, and find a set-up you like, and that works well in conjunction with the rest of your army. If you want some more information on some of the other legions wargear and princes, then I'll be happy to give it to you. I can also try to answer any other questions you have about chaos.


    Ben
    Last edited by brushman; October 9th, 2006 at 05:37.

  8. #7
    Member Lt Smash's Avatar
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    Hey, independant characters automatically have move through cover, just a side note. Good advise though.

    ... There's no place like 127.0.0.1

  9. #8
    Treadhead with a Chainaxe Kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt Smash View Post
    Hey, independant characters automatically have move through cover, just a side note. Good advise though.
    Sure you're not thinking of 'skilled riders'?
    #lochat, irc.quakenet.org
    World Eaters, Kaiser Style < Old thread. No ressurecting!
    Late War Schwere Panzerkompanie, Kaiser Style < Don't ressurect this either.

  10. #9
    Son of LO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
    Sure you're not thinking of 'skilled riders'?
    They have that too, I believe.

  11. #10
    Eternal Crusader Helbrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedrake28 View Post
    They have that too, I believe.
    Your right, all IC have move through cover and skilled riders standard.
    Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x

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