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As this forum gets tons and tons of topics about which Daemon Prince/Lord/Lt. setup is "best" or most effective or would be suggested, I have decided to start this topic for veteran players and new players alike to post their own ideas and discuss the tactics/strategies involved with playing them.
So, this is a thread to post your Daemon Prince/Lord/Lt. ideas based on what you think is most effective and would suggest to new players and veteran players alike.
Please, post your entries in the following manner:
Unit Name - Lord or Lieutenant
Mark: Type the Mark of Chaos here.
Weapons: Type the weapons here.
Gifts: Type the Daemonic and God-specific Gifts here.
Wargear/Other: Type the Wargear, Psychic Powers, Veteran Skills, etc. here.
Post the TOTAL points cost here.
Please also include the "titles" of each section, i.e. "Mark, Weapons, Gifts, etc." so that people can tell the difference.
The only other posts allowed are those discussing the uses/effectiveness, etc. of each of the Daemon Princes/Lords/Lt.'s. Any posts such as "oh that's good, oh that sucks" and other similar, slightly off-topic posts will be deleted.
Let's see 'em, folks!
edit: Just decided, it's perfectly okay to post your favourite/most effective LatD HQ's as well - i.e., Aspiring Champions and the likes.
I see this one all the time
Mark: Mark of Khorne
Equipment: Berzerker Glaive, Bolt Pistol
Gifts: Daemonic Stature, Daemon Armour, Daemonic Strength, Essence, Daemonic Resilience
Equipmetn: Collar of Khorne, Furious Charge, Frag Grenades, Feel No Pain
I think hes around 186pts I could be way off.
Standard run of the mill, uber CC Khorne lord. Just rush into CC, and cause all sorts of carnage.
Another sticky thread for the chaos forum. Give it a little bit longer and they will fill up the whole 1st page.
I think Lt. Vein deserves 1st spot.
Lieutenant Vein-Alpha Legion
Weapons: Pair of Lightning Claws
Gifts: Daemonic Strength, Daemonic Mutation
Wargear: Spiky Bits, Infiltrate
I'm wondering if he would benefit from any of the following: Daemonic Fire (as he has no gun), Daemonic Visage, Furious Charge, MoCU, Master-Crafted claws (basically another attack).
He will be used in a Lost and the Damned army and is accompanied by a squad of infiltrating chosen.
Edit: Damnit! Adrian Mal Seraph beat me by a few seconds. I think your khorne lord is 211 points.
Last edited by LordLink; October 18th, 2006 at 02:51.
@Adrian - I calculated 192 points.
Also, I question the usefulness of that Lord - sure, his high(ish) Toughness would seem nice, but he doesn't benefit from the IC status, and he's soaking up quite a hefty amount of points. It seems to me like a lot of firepower would be devoted to him, and all it takes is a single, say, Railgun solid shot to down him (50/50 chance with his invulnerable save). I prefer to rely on the IC status to keep him out of shooting, myself.
@LordLink - You might consider throwing on Visage and Furious Charge. I wouldn't recommend Fire so much, as having a simple Bolter-equivalent (or slightly worse) isn't really worth it for your big HQ. What are some tactics with him running alongside the Chosen? How are they getting into CC, with only standard movement? How are they not going to get shot up, as they will be a priority target?
The Mark of Chaos Undivided would be useful, I think, but I don't think Master-Crafted would. You simply start putting too many points onto the model, and re-rolling a single attack may not be worth it, especially since you already have Spiky Bits.
That khorne lord is amazingly hard to bring down. Sure a railgun will bring him down but tau is only one army. Not many people field demolisher cannons and they scatter anyway.
It usually takes about 15 lascannons to bring him down thanks to feel no pain and a 4++. Collar of khorne makes him immune to the force weapon and mind war and daemon armour means he's immune to krak missiles. Most armies nowadays rely on 4 missile dev squads for anti tank. Theres not much that can touch him.
My lieutenant will be getting into cc through infiltrate and having 9 meatshields. I can't give him speed or anything as I don't want him going alone.
Being a priority target is a problem I haven't found an answer to yet. The best I can do is take a few Tzeentchian mutants and scare people with their speed.
Also the army will have a few daemons his chosen will be summoning to back him up. There are also infiltrating traitors.
oh and hes also got frag grenades.
To keep things neat, I'm gonna post multiple posts, with differnet peices of information.
(BTW, I just got lots of info from my previous posts and consolidated them into this post.)
To officially be a daemon prince, it must have one of the following, or both:
1 - Over 50 pts of Daemon Gifts
2 - Daemonic Stature
You want to keep your Chaos Lord cheap, yet powerful. A good balance will equal the most effective lord you can get. It may be tempting to load up your Lord with as much goodies as possible, but this usually isn't the route to go. It will soak up a lot of points that would be more worth it in other areas of your army.
In smaller games (100 you should go with a Lt., but in larger games (1000+) then it's ok to go with a more expensive lord. And in large games of around 2000+, you could even take multiple HQ's.
marks of chaos
Mark of Khorne: Gives him fearlessness, and an extra attack. Moves towards the enemy faster, and always uses sweeping advance. Some good and bad, but overall for a Khorne army it's helpful. Fearlessness makes it so he won't run, and the other attack helps in close combat. He gets to the enemy faster as well, but because you can't control the direction it can be hard to control.
Mark of Nurgle: This makes him fearless like all the other marks, gives him d. resilience, which just grants him +1 toughness, and gives him the true grit ability, which makes his bolter count as a pistol in close combat. Fearlessness is, in almost all cases, good. You don't fall back, and you always pass morale checks, pinning, anything of that matter. Very helpful. Your opponent thinks *ahahaha, I'll just pinn his lt./lord with my snipers*, or *muahahahah I'll just pinn his lt./lord with my Horrorfex so he can't assault me*. Sorry, you can't do that. He's fearless. Your opponent.... :cry: It can be suprising (although I woudl think not, I mean, your facing chaos. You really woudn'lt expect them to be wimps, would ya'? :tongue. But anyway, it's just helpful, and easier to get into combat, and so you don't run away from combat or before you get their in the first place. The extra toughness also helps a lot. Extra toughness, means you'll be staying around longer/alive longer. Being alive longer means more attacks on the enemy. More attacks on the enemy. More attacks on the enemy means more of your oppoennts army dead! And then, true grit. Doesn't help that much, but still good. I'd rather have a bolter then bolt pistol if they act the same in close combat.
Mark of Slaanesh: Gives us Warp Scream, which takes away 1 initiative from your opponent in assault with your chaos lord (so it basically gives you an extra initiative if that makes better sense), and makes you fearless, again. Same benefits for fearless as I said in the other marks.
Mark of Tzeentch: First thing to note, is that this mark has different effects for characters and aspiring champions, and Chaos Space Marine units. What we'll be looking at is the first one - for characters and aspiring champions, because this is what applies to chaos lords/princes/lt's. Anyways, Mark of Tzeentch makes him a sorceror, and automcailly passes psychic tests. I suggest you take advantage of this, and give him a psychic power! Wind of Chaos works well, as well as some others.
Last edited by brushman; October 18th, 2006 at 03:16.
I want to make sure you understand all the basic stats in your daemon prince that make him powerful in close combat.
Traits that make the daemon prince powerful
Strength: High strength values make it easier and more reliable to cause wounds which result in casualties, making your Lord more powerful. Chaos Lords, happen to be able to buy several upgrades which increase their strength higher and higher, and that's without using things like powerfists. This gives them an advantage over other enemy characters, such as a Space Marine Captain.
Attacks: The number of attacks and the kind of attacks, are what matter here. Chaos Lords are very renowned for their capability to have ridiculous numbers of attacks, ranging from a humble 3 or 4 upwards of 8 to 10, from a single chaos prince/lord. The kind of attacks are also devastating and well reputed of chaos lords, due to the mighty power of daemonic weapons which make all those attacks (which hit easily thanks to high weapon skil) do even more damage. The ability to ignore armor saves, ignore invulnerable saves, re-roll failed wounds, insta-kill opponents, etc are all very potent and powerful kinds of attacks, which can be very effective.
Weapon Skill: Basically if your WS is higher than their's, you're hitting easier with a 3+. If you have very high weapon skill, it's harder for your opponent to hit you back because then they will usually need 5+. If your weapon skill is one more than double your opponent's weapon skill, they hit you on 5's. It doesn't get any worse then 5+ however and the best it can get is 3+. Most things hit on 4's on average. Anyway, one thing all our monstrous creatures tend to have in common, is their ease to hit, and their difficulty to be hit. It's not the case with every single one, but it is in many of them. Chaos Lords have a high weapon skill and typically hit their opponents on 3's, making them very potent in combat and allowing themselves to use destructive weapons to powerful potential.
Initiative: If you hit first, you can kill things first and you then have little striking back at you and sometimes, nothing hitting back. The faster and harder you hit, the better in combat you will be overall. Choas Lords and Daemon Princes have a high initiative, which allows them to crunch through almost all normal infantry hitting before they do. And they can buy upgrades which can raise this value even more, just in case we want to ensure it. This is another thing that makes princes/lords so potent.
Wounds: Kind've like toughness in the way of making your Lord harder to destroy, but in a different way. It makes it so you can take more wounds before dieing which makes it harder for your prince to be destroyed.
Toughness: Toughness makes it harder for your opponent to wound you. The higher the touchness, the higher rolls he'll be needing to be able to wound. It makes your character harder to destroy, so he can last longer and do more damage in close combat. Chaos has access to things which raise the toughness - another advantage.
Movement: Chaos lords have the standard movement; however, they can be modified to be very fast. This makes them beable to get into close combat quicker taking less damage on the way earlier in the game overall making a better daemon prince.
Saves: Chaos Princes already start out with a very good save, but they can make it even better. They have many gifts and wargear that can give them an invulnerable save, and also a better armour save. If you have a good save model, accompanied by a good toughness and wounds, then you have one prince to kill.
3 main veteran abilities I consider when building my chaos lord, is Infiltrate, Furious Charge, and Move through cover. Infiltrate I often use with my Death Guard. It gets him up the field with the rest of my army (my deathguard force usually infiltrates), and makes it so he can assault much quicker. Move through cover obvioulsy helps him move through difficult terrain. Another thing that helps your chaos lord get into assault sooner, and then finally furious charge. Makes your chaos lord quicker, and stronger on the charge. For Khorne, the main one you'll want to consider is Furious Charge if you have the points.
Edit: Actually, Independant characters come with move through cover, right?
I almost never give my Chaos Lord a retinue. I think it's a bad idea. It makes him slow, and gets extremely expensive. Many people overupgrade as well. If you load these up in a transport, such as a land raider, then it's putting all your eggs into one basket, which is generally urged against.
I would only start thinking about making a retinue for my lord until the 2000+ point landmark.
Lord? Lt.? or Sorceror?
With Tzeentch it's Sorceror. Tzeentch is all about powers and stability. It's all what they are about.
I usually say that Lords should be used for games of 1500+ points, and Lt's for anything lower. I still think you should keep things cheap until you start hitting the 2000 point range.
At 2000 points, I think it's also smart to start looking into a second HQ choice. A Chaos Lord and Chaos Lt. can work well together.
Unit Name - Lieutenant
Mark : MoCU
Weapons : Lightning Claw, kai Gun
Wargear : Terminator Armour
Bolsters a shooting squad and has the ability to help out in CC should your shooting units be assaulted.
Can people also please state what legion the Prince is for.
I presume that guy is Iron Warriors, fairly standard layout for them. Power weapon and daemonic strength are the same points. Some people might prefer +1S rather than rerolling wounding. I think he would also benefit from spiky bits.