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Iron Warriors Tactica (Supplement)
Since there is already an IW Tactica, this is meant as an addition to that document and to update with current information.
What is the IW? Simply put, IW are the Chaos shooty army. This is where they excel at the cost of CC ability. While they still have a competent CC capability, it is more expensive then you could get with many other Chaos armies. If you are not going to use the extra Heavy slot or the additional Oblits, then IW may not be for you. Why have the disadvantages if you’re not going to use the advantage? Let’s be honest, the Servo Arm is rarely taken and Siege Specialists is about as useful as a banana in a gunfight (unless it is an evil possessed banana of doom, then that’s a different story).
First, let’s start by covering the IW disadvantages.
NO daemons. This is a hit to your CC and “surprise” ability. Without daemons you loose some very cheap and effective CC units. However, you more then make up for it in firepower.
NO marks besides MoCU. While many agree MoCU is a very useful mark, this will impact your ability to design your Lord/Prince. Many Princes employ the MoK (and some wargear of said mark) or the MoS. This means no wargear from the cult armies and no advantages from their marks.
So, with those disadvantages, why would I play IW?
Well, the two primary reasons why people choose IW is the extra Heavy Support slot and the removal of the limitation to Obliterators. I will say this now so I don’t have to say it later...
I am a firm believer that if you do not plan to use the extra oblits or the extra heavy support slot, then pick another legion, IW is not for you! I have seen several IW players that think more then 1-2 oblits or 4 Hvy Support is just silly...? Then, uh, why are you IW again?
With that said, lets look at the force org chart and see what makes an IW list special.
This is what makes IW famous (or infamous), even more so then the Hvy Support. IW can take up to 9 Oblits! Generally, most people will scale the amount of oblits with points. To give you an idea, I take 2 @ 500, 4 @ 1000-1500, and up to 6 at 2k. Always spread your Oblits around their slots. I.E., if you have 3, have 3 squads of 1. 4? Then 2-1-1 This has multiple advantages:
-That devastator squad with 4 lascannons can only nail 1 oblit a turn instead of a whole squad
-They can fire at the same or separate targets
-You can spread the threat all over the battlefield and really freak out your opponent (these guys have a great psych-out factor)
The max most people take are generally 3 squads of 2 for points and <cough> friendly reasons. However, there is no law against 3 squads of 3, but you may be taking a hit to another force slot points-wise that’s not necessary.
We can do this cheap, or we can do this expensive. Here is your opportunity to be creative with some DEVASTATING Hvy Support combos. Don’t forget, another IW benefit is you can take 1 Basilisk and/or 1 Vindicator if you so choose.
Examples: 4x 8 man Havocs. Now, this is 32 troops (yeah model count!) and of those 32 troops you can have 16 with heavy weapons! What would I do? 12x Autocannons with Tank Hunters and (in one squad) 4x MLs with Tank Hunters (or Las, your choice). This is anti-tank, anti-hoard, anti-everyone but all 4 squads will cost you about 1k. Yes, at 2k that’s half your points, but it’s still 32 models and down right mean.
I like a more mechanized approach. That is 1 Defiler (w/ Indirect) and 1 Basilisk (w/ Indirect) to start. Then you can add a Pred and/or Vindicator (both have their pros and cons). Top it off with a 8 man 4x Autocannon Havocs with Tank Hunters. Or, take the Pred and the Vindi (it’s cheaper then the Havocs). This lot of templates and shots will ruin the day of many an opponent.
Whatever you decide, use your slots. A Defiler, Basilisk, Pred and Vindi will cost you, on average, about 500pts; half that of the all-havoc list and gives you a lot of templates but few models.
Two words: Use It! You have little CC capability and Chaos Fast Attack is all about the CC. Either take a squad of Raptors (usually 6-8 ) or Bikes (usually 4-6), it’s up to you. I would give these guys flamers and maybe one melta. This way you can pop a tank, flame a squad, and tear up some guys in CC. You have one slot, use it and make it worth it. I won’t go into too much more detail on how to use these guys as it’s all over the forums (even a tactica or two).
An IW Lord should make up for your CC shortcomings. Take a Lord/DP that is designed for CC as this will be the other CC slot in your army. In low point games (sub-1500) I take a Lord on a bike joined with a 3 man bike squad. I use this unit to react to my enemy, i.e., DS into my fire lines or a CC charge to ward off an advancing line of nasty CC types. It will tear up most other CC squads easily and generally run around 270-300 pts for the Lord w/gifts + 3 bikes. In higher points (1500+) I look to a 200-ish point CC DP that can tear into anyone. I still use him as a counterattack unit and usually advance my fast attack slot forward to attack. However, a nasty, hard to kill HQ is also a good target for a CC DP who can negate saves.
There are many theories out there on what to do with these guys. You can go the 5-man squad route w/Las, ML, Autocannon or HB, and maximize your heavy weapons (my preference) or you can make bigger, 7-8 man squads w/ an AC w/ Power Fist who you can use to block charges into your firing lines. I do NOT recommend you try to slap some CC squad together here. A Marine assault/command/termie squad will tear you up. If you want assaulty troops use your FA slot or play another Army. IW can hold their own like any CSM, but we are designed to shoot, not CC, especially our troops. So, I would recommend you take a minimized squad number (5), don’t take ACs, and load up on the Heavy Weps (likely Las/ML or HB/Autocannon mix depending on the enemy). You’ll squeeze one or two more Hvy weps in then an army with bigger squads at the same points and that means more firepower!
So, there you go. Feel free to provide feedback and if I agree, I’ll make some changes
I disagree here, in a way. Tactically wise, this is true. But not fluff wise. I see no fault in someone who wants to play Iron Warriors because of their fluff, models, or looks; or, a combination. I do relise this is a tactica, and not a fluffy Iron Warriors run down, but I don't think you should discourage people to play them if they like the fluff, even if they don't use them to the full tactical advantage.If you are not going to use the extra Heavy slot or the additional Oblits, then IW may not be for you. Why have the disadvantages if youâ€™re not going to use the advantage? Letâ€™s be honest, the Servo Arm is rarely taken and Siege Specialists is about as useful as a banana in a gunfight (unless it is an evil possessed banana of doom, then thatâ€™s a different story).
Looks pretty good. Nice job!
Well, about the fluff. There are people that paint IW but play different legions playstyles, like Alpha Legion. (I'll admit, I just got the books and it's pretty cool to have a book about your army.) However, tactically, for all you give up, to not use IW for what makes them strong really does hurt your overall army. Maybe I'll put some text about "If you don't want to use IW for its strengths, but its fluff, then that's fine. However, it will make winning games a little more difficult then using IW as an oblit/hvy support army."
The way I play Iron Warriors, at 1500, follows these lines which are somewhat different from yours:
With the ability to put a ton of armor on the table, this gives you the chance to play with a Daemon Prince as he won't be the only lascannon target. Not only that, but he will have to draw the fire of people who might otherwise shoot at your tanks and he won't have to slog the whole board as the shooty nature of your army forces your enemy to come to you
Daemonic Venom/2 CCW
Needless to say, Iron Warriors take Oblits. However, there is one thing that most people don't consider. The enemy is coming to you, typically and I have used Possessed several times and they make very excellent countercharge units. I once had 7 of them charge a librarian and 4 terminators and get 5 rending wounds. That librarian was pretty lonely.
There are two ways of going about troops. The first is to take the minimum and stick them in a rhino with a Havoc Launcher and have them running around, shooting their heavy weapons out of the Rhino's hatch (tankhunting autocannons are my preferred for this, though you could always get meltaguns or flamers or something so that they can shoot on the move). The second is to tool up a couple of squads of 8-10 with champs and powerfists and cheap weapons and hide them behind your other stuff and walk them forward.
I don't use fast attack in a Iron Warriors list. All of the FA selections are very expensive and the Iron Warriors have got better places for it.
My preferred setup is
Vindicator, Mutated Hull, Extra Armor
2x Predators, Autocannon, Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor
Predator, Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsoons, Extra Armor
The reason I don't take a Basilisk is simply that for the same cost I can get another vehicle in my enemy's face which has more firepower. This setup is pretty expensive but the only people you really need to worry about are Tau. With Rhinos, Obliterators, Predators, and a Vindicator, however, you've got plenty of return firepower.
Last edited by kingcomrade; October 21st, 2006 at 01:43.
Open up in the name of the Lawl!
Against Tau I find it plausible to have a fast Lt or Lord, in any type of chaos space marine army, including Iron Warriors. Typically I put him on a bike, have him speed boost forward the first turn, and then assault the second. Speed boosting him leaves him with an invulnerabble save, and with Daemon Armor, it's a 2+ invulnerable save. I don't think any army wants to deal with that. I use cover if possible, as well, even with the turbo boost invulnerble save.
You can assault JSJ tau battlesuits, or you can assault fire warrior lines, or any other various units.
I'm going to revise the first post, I did write it rather quickly. Also, I want to give some optional "build" ideas, or units you can swap in and out.
- (any point level) Ditch the pred for a Vindicator, give it mutated hull, about the same points.
- (any point level) Take an infiltrating 8-man Havoc squad with 4x plasma. Yes, they will die, but they'll kill a lot of stuff!
- (any point level) No bikes, instead a tooled up CC D. Prince (but don't go over 200 pts) and use the extra points on more troops.
- (1500+) Use 6 oblits, in a 2-2-2 layout. 6 is generally the best point/reward value. 3 oblits in a squad does not net as much gain as from 1 to 2. However, in higher points there's no law against 3-3-3 (not to mention the opponents terror factor).
- (1500+) Use ONLY Havocs as heavy support. For 4 squads in 8-man setup, each with 4x Autocannons and maybe 1 squad of 4x Las or MLs, all w/ Tank Hunters, this will cost you about 1k of your points. However, it is 32 models and A LOT of firepower.
I agree that the tactics you have suggested are good suggestions for IWs, but prehapse you are being a little absolute with your suggestions. There are other tactics and army themes that fit into Iron warriors outside the tried and true ones. I saw a 4 dreadnaught, statured lord, 2X rhino mounted tac squads, and 2X rhino mounted possesed marine assault iron warrior army once in 1500 points, and it did quite well.
Shoal07 asked me to do this up for his supplement to the IW Tactica.
I started using IW in Jun 05 and have had considerable success with them. Most of my games are in tourneys so I experience a wide variety of opponents and armies and missions. The IW I built have preformed very well. When I was building the list there were a number of things that I considered.
I wanted to have a lord that was not over the top, but one that could deal with other playerâ€™s uber HQ choices. I wanted to put in the max number of obliterators I could and remain under 25% elites. I was not really sure what to do with the troops, until I read a little of the IW background and then it became a little clearer. I never wanted to have the ordinance template army of death (4 pie plate chuckers) in fact I did not want to have any, as a result I themed the force around it being the force that would assault through the breach. As a result my marines in troops became foot based close combat squads. Finally for the heavy support I opted for the dread and a predator, I decided the predator would be useful for horde armies, while the dreads were initially close combat I redesigned them for advancing fire support.
The generic 1500 point list:
Daemonic steed, strength, essence, and aura, furious charge, spiky bits, dark blade, bolt pistol, MoCU, bionics and frag grenades.
10 Space marines, 1 AC with Powerfist, 1 Melta Gun, 8 with Bolt Pistol CCW.
10 Space Marines 1 AC with Power weapon, 1 Melta Gun, 8 with Bolt Pistol CCW
6 Space Marines, 1 Lascannon, 5 with bolters
7 Space Marines, 1 AC Power weapon, 1 Lascannon, 5 Bolt Pistol CCW
Dread with Lascannon CCW
Dread with Lascannon CCW
Predator, Autocannon and heavy bolters.
Ok with this army it has more than 40% troops, more troops than other choices, less than 25% in categories other than troops. There are also 9 scoring units to enable it to achieve missions. But the real strength in this army list was the fact that it worked together and supported itself well. Essentially there was a good balance between assault and shooting and this was something that a lot of my opponents failed to understand.
Now with every army there are strengths and weaknesses, I will start by looking at the weaknesses. Lack of mobility, it stands out like dogâ€™s balls, there ainâ€™t no rhinos and the predator generally does not move over 6 inches for the obvious reason.
Limited numbers, the army is quite small, 8 good lascannon shots and I can lose nearly 60% of the army, of course I will never allow anyone to do that but the limited numbers can be an issue.
So what about its strengths, flexibility one of the principles of war, I can change the weapons my obliterators fire each turn to meet the threat. Also the ability to move and fire fits into flexibility as I can change my fire position and still suppress the enemy effectively. The squads all have the ability to deal with almost all enemies they are likely to face.
Balance is present in this army it has a mix of firepower at range and close in as well as the assault element to either charge or counter charge. Balance is one of the most important aspects of any army, without it a good opponent will own you.
While Shoal is a big advocate of fast attack I see it as a waste of points and not required. Shoal has said troops should not be orientated to close combat yet I think it is the way to go. Now obviously there is a difference in opinion here between what I use and think and that of Shoal07, that does not mean either of us is wrong. We are both in different countries with very different gaming communities; we have different experiences and thoughts based on these, etc. This means that both of our opinions are valid, but you have to choose which path you will go down, based on our ideas and your own thoughts as well.
A lot of the wins I achieved with the IW and there are a few, came from the fact that I play smart and donâ€™t make mistakes, I force my opponent to make them, then punish them for making them. The ability to do this will come with time to any player. The list you use is important, but you have to understand how to use the list and how to get it to work together for it to be effective. If the army just works has 12 different elements, then it is just that 12 units slapped together and the only thing they have in common is the fact the same player is using them. On the other hand an army of 12 units which are working together and supporting each other intimately will seem to their opponent to be 15 or more units.
One of the guys in the local area copied my necron list and found he was not able to win as many games as I was, the reason was that he played differently and the list did not work for his style of play
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