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  1. #1
    Member Silvanest's Avatar
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    help with necrons

    oiy.... thats all i can say guys. last night i played a necron player. and besides him being a total ass the entire time his army ate me up. at only 1k points he put a monolith, a destroyer, a huge swarm thing (like 10 bases of little bug like things), two large groups of normal necrons and a lord.

    i rolled unlucky and we played clense alpha. no infiltratining for me. but it seemed like there was nothingi could do that would acctualy drop these friggin things. at the end of the game i had only killed about 7 necrons, the destroyer and a couple swarms. they're friggin we'll be back thing was killing me. i'de knock down about 10 of them... and ten all but like one would be right back up.

    and that friggin monolith was just wrong. i mean jebus i couldnt touch it for the life of me. and it was able to kill my oblits and havocs like knife through butter.

    do you guys have any tips? i mean i know im a newb to 40k but this is the worst battle i've had ever.


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  3. #2
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Chill out - you won't acheive anything enraged, and it's a little embarrasing for yourself when you don't know the various basic units names.

    Take a necron codex, take a long read - The Necrons have a LOT of special rules which you need to know to make sure everyone is playing fair and square.

    Take a browse on the forums (both Chaos and Necron) and take heart - you're not the only one who's had problems with the necrons.

    I would advice you to post your list in the appropriate army section and ask for advice.

    Fielding a Monolith at 1000 is very risky ... well, let's just say i know one person who i think could pull that off, and he lives in a different country to me (you know who you are )
    Sounds like a nasty list with all those scarabs.

    We're here to help. But against necron tactics depends almost entirely on who you use.
    Use power weapons and go for phase out simply won't cut it.

    LO Rules

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Lamenter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karmoon
    Chill out - you won't acheive anything enraged, and it's a little embarrasing for yourself when you don't know the various basic units names.

    Take a necron codex, take a long read - The Necrons have a LOT of special rules which you need to know to make sure everyone is playing fair and square.

    Take a browse on the forums (both Chaos and Necron) and take heart - you're not the only one who's had problems with the necrons.

    [...]

    We're here to help. But against necron tactics depends almost entirely on who you use.
    Use power weapons and go for phase out simply won't cut it.
    Some very important tips here. Make sure you read the necron codex and get to know their little special rules that makes them so annoying.

    I don't know what kind of list you had, so giving hints can be a bit tricky but in general:

    1. Make use of the fact that the Necrons don't get their "will be back" roll against certain attacks.
    2. Do not forget that swarms can be instant killed.
    3. Do not forget that Necrons have a Phase-out number. If you kill enough of Necron models (and not all models in a Necron army count as Necrons for this purpose) they will all disappear. In some cases it can be easier to focus on killing enough of them first and worry about objectives later.
    4. The Monolith can be very nasty and is fairly cheap for what it caan do. But a few well-placed Lascannon shots usually take care of it nicely.
    5. Close Combat is good for you because of the Necrons' comparatively low Initiative value. Be careful, though. They have some HTH units.
    Shut up and play.

  5. #4
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Silva nest.. i've just realised who you are and which forum this is... i guess you were using your 1000 ALpha legion list?

    Right.. in which case it's personal

    Bear with me, let me take a look at your list and try and help you....

    Ok.. was this your list?

    Ok, heres my updated army list!

    Alpha Lord. bolt pistol, darkplade, D.Speed, Infiltrate, spiky bits, MoCU, Frags, furious charge - 137pts

    Obliterators X2 -140pts

    Marine Squad 1 X6 Bolters, missle launcher, infiltrate -100pts

    Marine Squad 2 X5 bolters, Lascannon - 85pts

    Marine Squad 3 X6 bolters, Plasmax2, infiltrate, Aspiring champ with power fist - 138pts

    Marine Squad 4 X8 CCW, infiltrate, meltaX2, frags, Aspiring champ with power fist - 176pts

    Havocks X8 bolters, infiltrate, tank hunters, autocannons X4 224pts

    Total - 1000
    If that's the list you were using, well, i would feel 100% comfortable taking on necrons with your list.
    Right, what exactly happened in the match? How did the 'lith kill your oblits so easily? What did the scarabs do, and what wherre your assault squads doing?
    Last edited by Karmoon; October 22nd, 2006 at 22:19.
    LO Rules

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  6. #5
    Member Silvanest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karmoon View Post
    Chill out - you won't acheive anything enraged, and it's a little embarrasing for yourself when you don't know the various basic units names.

    Take a necron codex, take a long read - The Necrons have a LOT of special rules which you need to know to make sure everyone is playing fair and square.

    Take a browse on the forums (both Chaos and Necron) and take heart - you're not the only one who's had problems with the necrons.

    I would advice you to post your list in the appropriate army section and ask for advice.

    Fielding a Monolith at 1000 is very risky ... well, let's just say i know one person who i think could pull that off, and he lives in a different country to me (you know who you are )
    Sounds like a nasty list with all those scarabs.

    We're here to help. But against necron tactics depends almost entirely on who you use.
    Use power weapons and go for phase out simply won't cut it.

    hey man, sorry about comming off a little hot. lord knows i dont win every game (and of course no one does) but it was just the combination of such a crushing loss and my opponents attitude. ah well, that is life.

    anways youwere right i was using the alpha legion list but without infiltrate. i will try to sort out what happend each round and post a little mini battle report once i get a chance.

  7. #6
    Member onodera's Avatar
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    Okay.
    A Monolith, a Heavy Destroyer (I think that's the one he used), 10 bases of Scarab Swarms and a naked Lord amount to 520 points. That leaves him 480 points worth of Necrons at most. That's 26 Necrons. With the HD and the Lord - 21 need to be killed to trigger Phase Out. I'm pretty sure he had even less.
    <strike>The Heavy Destroyer and the Monolith are pretty nasty shooters. I'd try to outshoot the HD with your 3 Lascannons and drop the Lord as well, he probably has some eq that helps WBB! rolls.</strike>
    Your Havocs can't hurt the Monolith, so I'd concentrate their effort on the rank and file (they would instapwn the scarabs). Your Lord would have no problems taking out a squad of Warriors (no WBB! for them), your melta squad could probably assist him in taking out the other squad.
    As far as I can see your problem is the amount of shootiness you had you just can't use. The safest place with Necrons is between their cold metallic bodies, chopping them up. But scarabs can tie your assaulters, and your shooters won't have a lot to shoot at if the warriors are being assaulted as well.
    *scratches head*
    Okay, I think I have another idea. Do not use weapons that allow WBB! on Necrons (Lord, HS, Warriors) at all. I mean plasma and autocannons. Use them to munch through Scarabs first.
    The Lord and the HD can't be instakilled, so they have to be taken out with a power weapon (Dark Blade or a Power Fist). I don't think you'll hurt a Monolith (um, you will, but don't count on this {According to my spreadsheet, you have a 24% chance of destroying the bastard in any given turn if you use all four guns on it}) with 3 Lascannons and a Krak missile, so I'd use this on the Warriors. Just stay out of 'lith's range. Don't allow it to get close enough to yank his Warriors out of close combat.
    Waiting for your mini report.
    Last edited by onodera; October 23rd, 2006 at 00:25.

  8. #7
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanest View Post
    hey man, sorry about comming off a little hot. lord knows i dont win every game (and of course no one does) but it was just the combination of such a crushing loss and my opponents attitude. ah well, that is life.

    anways youwere right i was using the alpha legion list but without infiltrate. i will try to sort out what happend each round and post a little mini battle report once i get a chance.
    Don't worry about it, sorry to jump down your throat and stuff.

    Anyway, as the Yak and I said earlier, infiltrate or not, you should still be able to win with your list. The loss of infiltrate is annoying sure, but it shouldn't cripple you as bad as that.

    Onodera is also spot on in his anti necron assessment, but in this case i think there's merit in trying to overcome the necron forces with the forces that you have in hand.
    I think it's better to improve as a player rather than simply fashion your forces to beat the opponent's one specific force every time.

    I'm very sorry you had a bad experience at the hand of an a-hole player.
    As for what his army consisted of, i'll reserve judjment. Call me cynical, but there might have been some foul play.
    LO Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    Anyone who's as loyal and motivated to doing what they love as you are is respectable in my book
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyric
    I'm taking leave of my senses and shall be out of my mind until further notice.

  9. #8
    I r newbie again DP Excerion's Avatar
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    Phase out is definetely what you should be going for in that game. After looking over the list Karmoon has just posted I see it hard not to kill lots of Necrons with all those plasma and low ap weapons.

    I've played people with a Monolith in 1000 points and I was using Khorne Berserkers. It was hard foguth based on the terrain as he hid in bunkers and shot down my 24 zerkers with the Monolith but I just went after the troops. Ignore the Monolith. Too bad you didn't get inflitrate though, as I could see that game ove rin 2 turns if you did.


  10. #9
    señor brushman! brushman's Avatar
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    Note: I want to mention, that I very breifly read through the thread before this post, so I'm sorry if lots of the information is just repeated.

    Read through the Necron codex. Play around with it a little to get to know it better. I find making army lists a great way to get to know the codex.

    First, some general tips, and then I'll go down your list which was mentioned early in the thread.

    Consider We'll Be Back. It can be extremely annoying. Make sure to use weapons that ignore this. Examples would be close combat weapons that ignore saves, such as power weapons, power fists, ect. Ranged weapons would be things like Plasma Weaponry, Lascannons, ect.

    Phase out should be your main focus. Ignore big point sinks your opponent may have like The Nightbringer or Deciever, or a Monolith. Calculate the amount of Necrons to be killed before phase out. This will give you a goal. Goals are always good. I believe there was a study where they asked kids in school if they set goals. About 3% did. They checked the jobs of those 3%, and saw how much they made compared to the people who didn't make goals. The money the 3% made was over the amount the rest made combined. I'm not sure if this was true. I might of just gotten it mixed up from memory, or didn't hear it correctly, but I thought I'd mention that even if it doesn't apply to Warhammer 40k directly.

    Teleportation. Watch. Out. For. Teleportation. It's one of the biggest advantages Necrons have. They can use it for teleporting out of close combat, into good fireing position to blow you away, position for traps and other strategies/tactics, ect. Don't be suprised if your opponent teleports out of combat leaving your infantry wide in the open. To help counter this, when you assault, assault with multiple squads. That way you'll always have units in combat with him. This ties them up so they can't shoot, and makes it so your opposer's army can't fully ajust to your movements. Furthermore, he can't teleport all of his units out of combat in one turn. While this tactic isn't fully circumstantiated, it can help you in the midst of battle. In combat you'll almost always have the advantage with Chaos Space Marines against Necrons. Necrons have a low initiative, and chaos possess weapons that can negate the effects of We'll Be Back. Necrons also have a low WS, nor attacks. There are however Necrons that can match you in combat. Such units include Wraiths, Flayed Ones, if equipped correspondingly, Necron Lords, and Scarabs. Scarabs won't so much do damage to you in combat, but rather tie you up in combat.

    Always have Power Fist bearing Aspiring Champions in your squads. You'll be wanting to get into combat. And in combat, you'll want to be using power fists. These can also instant kill those pesky Scarabs, or maybe that irritating Necron Lord.

    Take heed to gause weaponry. Paticularly, there special effect against vehicles. They instant glance on a roll of 6. Although this may effect your chaos Alpha Legion list, it's worth mentioning.

    at only 1k points he put a monolith, a destroyer, a huge swarm thing (like 10 bases of little bug like things), two large groups of normal necrons and a lord.
    Conventionally, you'll want to ignore the Monolith. In 1000 point games, it's soaking up multitudinous amount of points which coudl've been spent on the special rule of the Necrons, Phase Out. Destroyers are always pesky, but as he only has 1 it shouldn't be a "more then one can stomach" problem. Also make sure he doens't take a WWB role, because it's alone destroyer. There must be a model within' 6" of the same type for him to get that roll. The Huge swarm thing that you're talking about, would be scarabs. The little annoying 3 wounded, but instant killable monsters, that have been aforementioned. Two groups Necron warriors shouldn't be to much to handle. Emenintly if they're at minimum squad size. Focus on them, and he should phase out soon. The Lord will plausibly have Viel of Darkness, which gives him the qualification to teleport around. Like mentioned above, watch out for it.

    Alpha Lord. bolt pistol, darkplade, D.Speed, Infiltrate, spiky bits, MoCU, Frags, furious charge - 137pts

    Obliterators X2 -140pts

    Marine Squad 1 X6 Bolters, missle launcher, infiltrate -100pts

    Marine Squad 2 X5 bolters, Lascannon - 85pts

    Marine Squad 3 X6 bolters, Plasmax2, infiltrate, Aspiring champ with power fist - 138pts

    Marine Squad 4 X8 CCW, infiltrate, meltaX2, frags, Aspiring champ with power fist - 176pts

    Havocks X8 bolters, infiltrate, tank hunters, autocannons X4 224pts

    Total - 1000
    You actually have quite a good list for taking down a Necron army. Lots of fire power adept at destroying Necrons. Alpha Lord is fast, and should be able to get into combat, in which he'll easily rip through squads. I suggest you target the Warrior Squads. Rip through them, and move on to the next. With infiltrate, you can get a first turn charge (hopefully you'll get infiltrate next time). You're heavy weapon wielding marine squads are fine even without the AC because you won't be moving forward towards the necrons, and the necron player won't be assaulting you with his list. The other squads look good.

    Hopefully next time you play him, you'll get to use infiltrate. It will help quite a bit, but your list is still very functional without infiltrate.

  11. #10
    Member Silvanest's Avatar
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    hey guys. thanks a ton for all the feedback. i know next tim i will deffently ignore the lith and focus on the warriors. that was part of the problem, my oblits and havocs tried to go after itt. and ended up getting wasted by the particle whip blast atack. the AP2 S9 ment i had to roll at least one 5 to save a single oblit. and of course i didnt.

    the one thing that bothers me is that people keep saying that low ap or power weapons deny him the WBB rule? if thats the case then i feel a ton better already because no mater what weapon his guys were hit with he was able to try to resurect them.

    and i do applogise again for comming off as rather wound up and noobish. but since this was my first game against necrons it was just realy shaking. i realy appreciate all your guys's help.

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