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What do most armies use for fast attack? I like the idea of raptors hit and run but most people seem to use bikes instead. Is there any reason for this? I guess raptors are fragile, but I just bought a box of them so i'm hoping they aren't useless and I didn't waste the money.
I want to use the raptors as a flanking unit that can summon daemons as well. They also seem to be good tank hunters, but still I see most army lists using bikes. What is the deal?
Otherwise, I think it's pretty equal.
Personally, I prefer raptors. They're cheaper, easier to hide and have more options.
Bikes are cool and all, but they're quite vulnerable, and each wound hurts ever more than it does for raptors. Raptors benefit from infiltrate also - very important for potential bombs, or evil first turn charges.
Personally, I think bikes are easier to use, and they have a lot of appeal. If in doubt, you can just turbo boost into cover and worry ab out what to do then.
Also, bikes undoubtedly make better firing platforms for bolters, plasmas, s. blasteres etc. This might be why they're more popular.
Last edited by Karmoon; November 3rd, 2006 at 00:51.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
it depends on what your after if your after a fast cc unit... go with bikes if you wish a fast shooty unit... go with bikes if you want a fast anti-tank unit ...go with bikes the only reason to take raptors is if you want a fragile extremelly expensive infiltrating anti-tank squad
raptors arn't useless as much as you can only usethem in an undivided army hence limiting and in an undivided army they are still soo expensive and people know this so will specificaly target them so it's my oppinion that in games of less than 2000 (you should have enough threats at those points that to lose the raptors isn't harmful and if they target them exclusively it'll actually help) use bikes
however the humble furie is the most useful fast attack it is cheap, easy to use and can dish out some hurt although my personal fave is mounted daemonettes heh heh daemonettes with d.speed ?*drools*
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I tried the furies in one game, and I didn't care for them much. All they did was hold up a squad of SMs before being killed outright the following turn. I guess that is good for their point level but the just don't seem to have any lasting power.
What initially attracted me to raptors was the hit and run rule and their lower point cost. However, it is almost always necessary to give your raptors infiltrate and then furious charge... 10 extra points per model for these two abilities, not to mention the unit upgrade options. So the cheap choice has now become the expensive choice.
Bikes are neat I guess... i think i might go with both of them in my 2k list. My goal is to have a fast assault army with Slaanesh at the core. I think this will do okay against most opponents, unless they are faster than me. I'm actually thinking of giving alpha legion a try since they seem like a suped up Black Legion. I really like using daemonettes though so i'm not sure how much i will like them, what with cultists being a bunch of sissies. I've actually been thinking it would be fun to have an army with 6 bike choices... Nurgle lord with minimial points in troops, and then a squad of MoCU bikes and a squad of Slaanesh or khorne bikers... sounds tasty!
Also quick question on bikes... people keep telling me they are a stable platform and can move and shoot in the same round, but I don't see any rule that says that. In the big gaming rulebook it talks nothing of that and in the codex it doesn't either... what am i missing?
Last edited by EcchuBlessu; November 3rd, 2006 at 02:24.
Furies are best against non-marine armies (or non 3+ armies). Their high strength high init does really well against Orks and Eldar.
Hit and Run: I don't play with much fast attack options in my armies, but from what I hear, this factor rarely comes into play. Hopefully, someone else who plays with lots of raptors can add something enlightening.
Raptors are best used in cityscapes or tables with tons of platforms and leveling. Any time the terrain benefits models that take to the air is the time to bring out the raptors. Bikes aren't nearly as good in multi-level terrain.
Hmmm...Raptors vs Bikes vs Furies...
Well, you bought Raptors and it really sucks to buy them and then find out they're useless. I'm here to tell you they are not useless.
Well, that's all I got really, I didn't say they rocked - they're just not useless. They can infiltrate, and can get furious charge, and can bundle those up with hit&run to be a pretty cool assault unit...but the bunny's right, you'll find you don't often get to use that sweet ability to its fullest. From my personal experiences, and from stuff I've heard on this board...the way to use the Hit&Run effectively is to team the unit with another one. Let's say you have some furies flying alongside the raptors and both charge the same unit. Then the Raptors bail out, but the Furies stay in CC. Then you simply re-assault the next turn. It's utilizing the ability...but you know what? It seems like it's a waste of a lot of points, and that's why most people don't even bother. (Infiltrate and Furious charge together only cost 6 pts, not 10...just so you know) I think Raptors get the upperhand in tank-busting though, as they can take 2-3 meltas in a squad of 5. They will be killed - yes, you have to assume they know this when they fly in, lol...but they will kill something big before they go. If that's enough for you, then bonus. As for summoning, well...I would think you'd have to really pray that the summoned units came in on turn 2, because the raptors may not survive to turn 3. (If you have enough Raptors to make the guns inter-changeable...having 3 flamers could take a lot of low T units out, and if you used that combined with Hit&Run, you could be killing a lot of Imperial Guard! I would use this in CityFight easily)
Since you bought them though, I would take a few games to see for yourself before you change your strategy. I had Raptors, but in the end decided they weren't worth their salt, and ripped them to pieces to make some of my other units. /cry what a waste of 40 bucks!
"Long live the Emperor!"
- a patient Chaos God
So are you using bikes now instead? I like the idea of using them in a supporting role instead of a primary role. I pretty much want them to be a thorn in my opponents side, like if you ignore them they sting you in the side. I am intrigued by the idea of raptors and furies. That would be a fun turn 2 assault... Have raptors on one side, bikes on the other... either way your opponent is most likely going to see some daemons come out and do some damage. Then again, I suppose if I wanted to do that I could use two bike squads... fleh, they sound so cool on paper but yeah, i sure hope i didn't waste $40 on them. Can anyone tell me how they use them in their army?
I'm really thinking that Bikes and Raptors and Furies would work really well together. I'm not sure if I have mentioned it but I'm trying to make a fast assault army, and well, raptors are fast!
I play Alpha Legion, and almost everything is infiltrating...and I actually don't use any Fast Attack at all. I tossed around the idea for a bike squad, but decided against it. My 2nd HQ is on a bike instead.
"Long live the Emperor!"
- a patient Chaos God