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Hello, i played my first game with an all world eater army today against shooty ultramarines, and would like to point out some observations of units and see if you guys agree, or what youd add or how you'd tweak them
Daemon prince, tooled up with wings, was a waste of time for me, he was a magnet for fire, and the assault anything within range was a big pain as the general threw a couple of rhinos at him before he could earn his points back.
I was thinking of dropping the daemonic flight next time and instead giving him the Glaive, i feel the d6 movement isnt much worse, while the 4+ inv will be a huge bonus.
lieutenant, was fantastic, he was cheap with just an axe of khorne with an additional hand weapon and daemon strength, chewed threw anything he came across, including my opponents chapter master & his assault squad, axe of khorne was bloody amazing! i managed to get 11 attacks out of him on a charge!
3X Berserker squads in rhinos (no burning blood), yea pretty good, the saving grace were the free asp champs with power fists, 5 power fist attacks on the charge!, was still in pain when they hit combat with a dready, i'll give the asp champs melta bombs from now on as even a powerfist couldnt take the blasted thing out.
5 man bike squad, simply the best, 24 inchs on the first turn, inv 3+ save, 4 attacks per bike, 5 with the asp champ, just deadly, oh man i think im going to pollute my underpants with delight just thinking about them again.
dread with twin autocannon, rubbish, just did nothing all game as autocannons couldnt dent power armour, and not strong enough against his dreads or predator! managed to be immobilised about 5 inchs away from combat after 4 turns of plodding :rolleyes:
so that'd cost me a fair chunk of change giving him mutated hull + daemon possession to make him survive the game.
Defiler, also a bit crap, gave indirect fire and couldnt hit a barn door all game, glanced his devs once hazaah!
so guys what do you think? has this been a typical outing for these units?
Originally Posted by Cheredanine
For tooled up khorne princes you always need at least Feel no pain and preferably berserker glaive, otherwise aura. This I guarantee will keep him on the board. Daemonic Armour will also make him immune to krak missiles which is a huge bonus.
Lascannon hits on 3+, wounds on 2+, 4+ invul and 4+ FNP with 3 or 4 wounds. I can guarantee he is not going to die.
Dreads in general usually like plasma cannons. Khorne Dreads usually like lascannons as anti-tank is low. Maybe trying a different weapons loadout next time.
Lieutenants are generally cool. With a bit of luck axe of khorne can be lethal.
Lightning Claws are nasty on them too.
Maybe try out a few foot-slogging berserkers as well? with burning blood so that they can try to keep up with the rhinos.
I have no experience with bikes. Look slike they are pretty good though with your description. Khornate ones look great with that many attacks.
Indirect defilers are good. Sounds like you just got a little unlucky.
Basically it sounds like you had a good game, I can't see anything wrong with what you've described and good luck with future games.
Last edited by LordLink; November 16th, 2006 at 07:41.
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I'm gonna agree with everything LL said, and one thing about Defilers -
You may go a whole game without them killing anything, and then seriously question their waste of plastic...and then the next game you play they score 3-400 VPs in one game, and you don't know what hit the table.
What you have to remember with the Defiler, is it is as much damaging to your opponent's psyche as it is to his units. He'll know that there's nowhere he can hide from the 'Filer, and that's scary. Some games it's beautiful, others it's an oddity. If it forces your opponent to make a mistake in his deployment or in his movements, then even if it hasn't killed many models - it has done a good job. Use it as a psychological tool.
"Long live the Emperor!"
- a patient Chaos God
Never played pure Khorne myself, but I think yuour observations are quite true as general observations too.
Cheap Lt is better than a tooled up flying Prince. Defilers can miss for an entire game, but Like Memnoch said -they can destroy a full table. Dreads can be dissapointing, but again when they hit home - they hit it hard.
My 1500 point army is 1 Lord(costs quite a bit but is statured so can hide in a squad) and 5 Squads of Khorne beserkers, each with a smoke launcher rhino. I have 2 AC's with powerfists, and 3 with Axes of Khorne. They also have daemonic strength, mutation and with the rest of the beserkers, furious charge and frag grenades. Meaning i can get a strength 10 powerfist on the charge. Either way, its simply a case of move rhino forward and smoke launcher. Usually ill disembark the beserkers and next turn, ill just move the rhinos forward again and hide behind them one again.
My Arena Champions: Kharn'eth The Bloodcleaver and Gorzag Iron Jaw
The thing to remember about any indirect ordanance is in a 6 round game, if you get 2 direct hits, that's average. Less is a bad day, more is a good day. Sounds like you had a bad day. It's like a 5 man squad of CSMs hat have to roll 5 saves and fail 5 saves. It doesn't mean the CSM save sucks, it means you had a bad roll.
Most of the highlights have already been covered. A couple of more things:
Daemonic Armor: This upgrade is a mixed bag. IMHO, it's not worth taking on a statured prince, because most of the incoming ranged fire will be from lascannons and the likes. This upgrade works best on a lord on a bike. The turbo changes the 2+ to an 2+ Inv (and who can beat that?).
Glaive: If you want control of your h.q., then by all means, avoid the glaive. It turns your lord into a puppet that can be controlled by a measily landspeeder. The one exception is perhaps on a lord w/ termi armor. Deep strike him behind enemy lines and he should resist virtually all incoming ranged fire. Assault the following round. This pup really needs some protection, so I would suggest the following upgrades: d. str, d. res, feel no pain (amazing upgrade).
Bloodletters: Expensive, yes. However, against 3+ armies, they'll kill an average of 8 troops per turn. Against Necron, they'll kill 8 warriors per turn at first initiative.
Tank busting: Since Khorne is painfully weak against vehicles, your best bet is the ole faithful: chaos predator w/ autocannon turret, las-sponsons, & daemonic possession. At 145 points, it will resist most incoming fire and dole out enough tank popping power to take down anything you come against. I would suggest a minimum of two, though, I don't think you can manage 3 in a 1500 point game. Your rhinos will help to protect the preds.
Tactics w/ Blood Frenzy: I'm not sure if how you play your games, but here is a tactic that has worked wonders for me: Whenever a zerker squad frenzies, move them forward their full movement, then use the rhinos to 'shield' the zerkers from incoming ranged fire. If you can manage, it's great to wedge the zerkers between rhinos on either side. This will protect them all around. The tactic may seem like a no brainer, but for some reaosn, most players that I encounter don't ever use this strategy.
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To prevent your opponent from forcing you to charge the rhinos, I suggest you use a predator Autocannon lascannon sponsons and hunt those down. It will also help agains dread.
I wrote this a long time ago, Tactica : Defiler (a comparative study), you might find it interresting.
Indirect fire is for p****, Khorne is manly and upfront, act like it.
Other comment :
You should get some daemons. Bloodletter are so good and Flesh Hound are an excellent support for a daemon prince.
Playing khorne is accepting to delegate a part of your power to dices. Therefore, you have to minimize the share of power you grant to dices. Berzerker Glaive is good on a lieutenant, not on a prince. Your prince need to make his own decision, not the glaive's one. Bikers are also an other way to keed control on your army. Also, you need some anti tank tools. Dread suck at tank hunting, You'll need a predator. If you're still not satisfied with your prince, migth I suggest you use a Blood Thirster. He won't get shoot before the second turn as he won't be summonned before the second turn. A biker AC is the perfect carrier.
And you need a lot of practice to get good with WE.
CHAOS Undiv.: won 14/22 games EC: 4/7 WE: 6/9 DG: 10/15, TS: 3/7 Orks : 13/20 SM NL : 1/6 TAU: 14 of 24 IG: 3/7
Problems w/ Khorne using the Defiler: Models with the MoK are known for charging forward. By round 3 most of the zerkers are close to or actually engaged in c.c., usually accompanied by Bloodletters. Khorne h.qs, likewise, are c.c. maniacs. Considering these elements, a defiler may very well turn into a zerker killing machine. The inconsistency of its accuracy can (and will) scatter onto the zerkers and letters. In my limited experience with the defiler, it has worked best in chaos shooty armies or chaos armies with flank-protecting c.c. units that are not charging into the enemy's front line.
MindRaked: I'm having trouble finding the page number in the Core Book that expressly defines Indiret Fire. Any chance you can post it? Also, where in the Core Book is it mentioned about moving a vehicle that has an ordinance weapon and then firing it with respect to its scatter? Can't find that either.
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