Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I want to buy a greater daemon to make a fluffy chaos army, and I was thinking of which one to get, which in your opinion is the best?
State reasons why.
Obviously the daemon which represents your legion would be the fluffy one. But if you have a Black Legion list, then you have to make the choice of them.
Gamewise, I don't use Greater Daemons. I just don't think they justify their cost. I'd much rather take a Chaos Lord/Lt. They are fun to use, and look awesome, however. They're great things to have, fluff wise, and can still serve a good role in your army. Now that that's aside...
In general, I usually use a fast bike squad to speed forward and unleash the daemons, but infiltrating squads, and transported squads can get the job done too. I also always give D. Chains to the daemon host, too.
I'd say the most powerful greater daemon is of course the Bloodthirster, but the best cost effeciant greater daemon, the Keeper of Secrets. The other two daemons, Great Unclean One and Lord of Change are both ok, and have their uses, but I'd have to say the Keeper of Secrets rains supreme in my lists above the other greater daemons. Slaanesh is also one of my favorite legions
Although the bloodthirster is wicked powerful, it's a lot more points. 45 points, to be exact. The benefits you get for those 45 points don't justify the cost, IMHO. You already have an excellent weapon skill and strength, so those small upgrades don't have much effect on the actual battle. Sure, you get a 3+ save with the Bloodthirster, but trust me. Your opponent will be shooting him with heavy weapons that have a low ap, like Lascannons, Starcannons, Missile Launchers, etc. Especially sense he looks so menacing. He's quicker, but hopefully if you get a good summoning position, and up the field near the enemy he'll be close enough where it doens't matter much. The Bloodthirster also has a low initiative. The Keeper of Secrets, has Warp Scream, so it will go before most opponents, giving it a tremendous (is that even a word? I mean big...) advantage against other assault infantry, or troops of the enemy.
The Keeper of Secrets (KoS) has a large amount of attacks tieing the Bloodthirster (5) and a decent strength, wounding most things it comes by easily. It's got Warp Scream, which is great (better initiative so goes before most enemies), and is around the average cost of the greater daemons. It can also be used with Daemonettes (I also think these are the best daemons packs...) The only big downfall is not having wings (acting like d. flight), but with good positioning and movement shouldn't be very troublesome. I'd say this is the best of the greater daemons. It also can take a psychic power available to slaanesh sorcerers. This can be a nice little benefit, and is fun to use.
The Bloodthirster comes first in brute force, but is very expensive. BT vs. KoS discussed above...Best strength of the greater daemons capable of instant killing toughness 4 models, which is nice. The 3+ save keeps you safe against small arms fire, but won't protect you from the BFG's. (big :rolleyes: guns). It has a low initiative. Close combat oriented foes will go before you, and most likely do a couple of wounds if not actaully kill you. It's the most expensive of all the daemons, and gets no psychic powers. It does however get wings, which is nice and can get you where you need after your summoned. Can also help you recover if you summoned in a bad position. Khornate Frenzy can be annoying if your trying to get to a certain area but the enemy gets in your way, and you're forced to assault. This isn't anything big, or something that you run into that often, but can really render him useless if he gets caught into combat. For example, with massess of conscripts, or something like that. Against hoards he will most likely not make his points back. Great against MEQ enemies, however.
My favorite of the daemons, although not as effective as the greater daemons above, is the Great Unclean one. He's a BEAST! :w00t: A wopping 6 wounds. He soaks up the firepower like crazy, and can take lots of hits, shaking them off. Although he isn't capable of dealing out the damage in combat as much as the other daemons, he can succesfully lock enemies into close combat. Not doing much damage is mainly due to the fact that it has a low amount of attacks, intiative, and low weapon skill (compared to the other greater daemons). This can be especially effective against one of his more valuable units; say, a command squad. Gotta watch out for force weapons though! It's also the cheapest of all the Greater Daemons, which is nice. The Great Unclean One comes along with some nice little gifts, Nurgles Rot and Nurgling Infestation. These can help a bit, but not too much of a noticable advantage. He can also get a psychic power, which is fun.
Last but not least, the Lord of Change. It has an awesome WS, has wings, a psychic power, doesn't have to take a psychic test, decent wounds, and strength. It can instant kill toughness 3 enemies, like guard, but the main con of the LoC is the low amount of attacks. It makes it hard to do enough damage in combat to be really worth it. At the same cost, I think the Keeper of Secrets is a better deal.
None of the greater daemons are neccesarily bad, but some work better then others. Overall, the most powerful is the Bloodthirster, but most cost effective the Keeper of Secrets.
*reads the above* Yup. Very True.
KoS with 2 Minor powers (hopefully Fuelled by Pain & Siren) and Doombolt or Wind of Chaos. It's great.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
You could also give the KoS Gift of Chaos, if you like.
Nicely put. Only thing I would say is that for me the Lord of Change is just a wee bit better than its Slaaneshii counterpart. Reason: Bolt of Change.
1.) This acts as another attack, basically. It is an assualt classed attack, at an even better strength than the daemon itself, and is effectively a power weapon that hits on a 3+ every time.
2.) In addition to that, there is the traditional way of thinking of it: as a ranged weapon good for tank busting or whatever.
3.) Its free! Since it is the most expensive power available to all of chaos, it is most cost efficient to take it.
Hey, what did you expect, I'm a Tzeentch player!:shifty:
Last edited by P-Tail; November 18th, 2006 at 06:43.
Lord of Change is also my favorite Greater Daemon for a few reasons:
He flies like the Bloodthirster, he's just as tough physically and in wounds as the bloodthirster, so he'll stay alive just as good versus shooting, and only slightly worse in CC. One reason why I would go with the LoC over the Bloodthirster? _ initiative. That puts him ahead of the KoS for me as well, as I value the _a with I_ over _a with I_.
Ok, next reason - _BS as opposed to _. The Bloodthirster cannot take psychic powers, so for me, that makes him an easy choice to scrap. The KoS has no mobility, so I would choose the LoC any day of the week. Bolt of Change with no test on a model with wings, _T and _ wounds? The _ WS as opposed to _ of the KoS isn't likely to really come into play very often unless going up against Eldar Phoenix Lords and Exarches...but it's one more advantage the LoC has.
In my opinion, the Lord of Change is the best all-around Greater Daemon in the Chaos universe. Flying, incredible psychic power, Initiative _...He gets my vote for sure. - That's great, but I'd like it if you didn't post stats. Thanks. - Firedrake28
Last edited by Katie Drake; November 20th, 2006 at 00:11.
"Long live the Emperor!"
- a patient Chaos God
The best daemon in 40k is the Slaanesh forgeworld greater daemon. For 200 points less than An'ggrath(the Khorne forgeworld greater daemon), it always wounds on a 4 plus and ignores all saves. I'm sure the Slaanesh one goes first aswell in combat so im very, very upset by this
My Arena Champions: Kharn'eth The Bloodcleaver and Gorzag Iron Jaw
I put my money down the Lord of Change being the most useful.
Sure he doesn't have quite so many attacks, however if you give the Winds of Chaos ppsychic power, it can burn quite a few models dead with the flamer template before the assault happens. As a bonus, nothing from Hormagaunts to Terminators are safe behind their armour save.
He also has a good Initiative, and with wings can jump around the battlefield to where he is most needed and has the movement to put that flamer template to good use.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
I've always felt that in 40k the Blood Thirster is overrated. The Keeper of Secrets however, god i love he/she/it. I always give it three minor power ( cough cough fueled by pain, siren) and gift of chaos. The delivery squad pretty much always infiltrates. And he/she/it, comes out on the second turn in most games. Its really mean, but fun to watch your opponent glare at you when you pop this great big demon out in their lines on the second turn. But my demon never works alone. My demon prince always runs in with it just to insure that anything else that could have possible shot, charge it doesn't.
Rheagar fought nobly
Rheagar fought valiantly
Rheagar fought honorably
And Rheagar died.