Khorne vs Slaanesh vs Undivided Bikers? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Khorne vs Slaanesh vs Undivided Bikers?

    In a black legion army you have (lord permitting) a choice for what mark of chaos to give your bikers. Here's a rundown of bikes as I see them (note that I'm inexperienced and likely to forget something here):

    Khorne:
    +Most attacks of any biker
    +No blood frenzy moves; can always shoot before assault.
    +Access to Axe of Khorne gives an interesting power weapon variant
    +Khorne Chainaxes are great vs 2+/3+ saves.
    -Can't upgrade their bikes to have anything other than combibolters.

    So these would make excellent assaulters/counter-assaulters, but expensive since you'd probably need 6-8 to do much good. With no access to meltaguns you'd probably need to look elsewhere for tankhunting.

    Slaanesh:
    +Best initiative, faster than other marines even without furious charge.
    +Access to sonic weaponry gives these superior medium-range firepower, at a very reasonable cost. Stable platofrm means you'll always get full allotment of shots.
    +Upgrades like doom siren and combat drugs may be useful for biker aspiring champions.
    -Most expensive bikers if you invest in sonic blasters. You'd need to handle these very carefully.

    With full access to the normal weapons + sonic blasters and doom sirens, and their improved initiative, these guys are a good mix of shooting and assault. Probably the most versatile choice.

    Undivided:
    +Cheapest of the three choices
    +Can summon any deamon, rather than just bloodletters/daemonettes/etc.
    -That's it, with MoCU you miss out on any special benefit beyond the morale bonus.

    So, these probably make the best tankhunters; with a small squad of 4 and two meltaguns, you'd be spending less and missing out on benefits that mostly only help in combat or vs enemy infantry. If you like to use various demons (or furies, since they can only be summoned to the MoCU, right?), you'd probably consider undivided bikers.


    Have I summed it up well at all? Please feel free to add your comments, or advise on which of the 3 choices you find most useful (either in or out of a black legion force).


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  3. #2
    Eternal Crusader Helbrecht's Avatar
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    Slaanesh:
    +Best initiative, faster than other marines even without furious charge.
    +Access to sonic weaponry gives these superior medium-range firepower, at a very reasonable cost. Stable platofrm means you'll always get full allotment of shots.
    +Upgrades like doom siren and combat drugs may be useful for biker aspiring champions.
    -Most expensive bikers if you invest in sonic blasters. You'd need to handle these very carefully.

    With full access to the normal weapons + sonic blasters and doom sirens, and their improved initiative, these guys are a good mix of shooting and assault. Probably the most versatile choice.
    I find slaanesh to be the best, with sonic weaponry they have good shooting and with warp scream they are good in close combat. They strke first against undivided and first or at the same time as khorne.

    That said why are sonic bikes the most expensive? They are cheaper than khorne bikers with axe of khorne, 2 points is a steal for sonic weapons on stable platforms.
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  4. #3
    Senior Member JORMAGI's Avatar
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    Hmm I'm not sure what i prefer between slaanesh and khorne for bikers they both have their uses, and they are different.

    I see Slaanesh bikers as a harassing unit. Pouring a high number of shots into their opponents and then using charges to finish a unit off.

    I see Khorne bikers as a "Smart" Khorne unit: moving quickly and without bloodfrenzy to assalt and tie up units they need to so that the rest of the army can do their job more safely.

    Furious charge is something I see Khorne bikers should not leave home without. It makes them a bit more expensive, but with the movement rate of bikes, it'll make a huge impact. . .It's also why I don't see warp scream being so critical of an issue for bikers.

    so both are excelent:

    Khorne: Assault power
    Slaanesh: versitility

    Hmm that pretty much is how it goes with the amies as well.

    as for the undivided biker, he's good, but he's got a few things going against him: first the upgrade for a mark is the same price regardless of the unit type. This means that the percentage of the points put into marks is far lower. . .essentailly making the markes cheaper and more effecient to purchace for bikes.
    Bike units tend to be small, and the boost in combat given by the markes goes a long way towards making a bike effective should they get into close combat.
    Now there is nothing wrong with the undivided biker, but asking about effeciency I would say that the marked bikes have an edge on him.
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  5. #4
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    I personally like Slaanesh bikers the best. Sonic weaponry rocks, good initiative, still awesome in close combat, can daemon bomb effectivley (khorne can too, and has real good bikers as well).

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    im a fan of both actually slannesh because of their superior firepower. they are also quite effective as an assault unit. but because of a low sacred number not so much as khorne.
    Khorne is a controlled khorne unit with a good movement rate and a ton of attcaks in cc. im actuly considering a khorne biker kult as we speak
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    Both are very useful stratergy wise, it really depends on your play style. Slannesh bikers can probably lay waste to infantry squad faster than Khorne, being able to lay down alot of shots. Khorne can tear up a heavy infantry squad better, especial terminators or MEQs. I think it depends on what you want to do. If you are missing a type of unit for a certain role, I'd go with whatever is better. Painting either of them should be pretty cool.

    Better question... are you planning to do a Khorne AND Slannesh army? Daemons as well?
    You can't do that. I'll assume thats not the case.

    If you are doing a Undivided army, and you want an elite unit of bikers AND daemons, I'd suggest Bloodletters if you want good elite CC. Daemonettes are good too, infantry killing that is. However Bloodletters have more stay power with those two saves. I wouldn't bother with Fast attack daemons being summoned by Fast attack units as they are probably already close enough to the enemy.

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    Black Legion Bikes: The biggest advantage of these pups is the ability to summon multiple kinds of daemons from their icon. If, for example, a B.L. army had both d'ettes and letters, then B.L. bikes have quite a bit of utility for summoning purposes.

    Slaaneshi Bikers: I've actually found these to be the most effective of all the chaos bikers, but only in conjunction w/ a d'ette horde. While Khorne bikers can summon letters, they are extremely expensive. Conversely, an 8 daemon horde of 'dettes can very cheaply assist a Slaaneshi bike squad in c.c. without concerning the chaos player with investing too many points into a double attack scenario. As far as using sonic blaster, these weapons are (as many peeps have indicated) very effective on bikes. In fact, I only take soniv blaster on bikers, because they are the most cost effective for the number of shots the squad potentially fires. That said, it's also a good idea to make the Slaaneeshi bikers c.c. oriented. Since you're only paying an additional 2 points per sonic blaster, you're not really investing too much on the ranged aspect of this unit; AND, let's face it, bikes are really meant to be taken into c.c.. The problem w/ leaving a bike squad of any significant size at range is that they are indeed a fire magnet. Furthermore, it can sometimes be difficult to make a Slaaneshi bike squad's points back with only firing sonic blasters.
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    This doesn't just apply to bikers, but, whenever slaaneshi troops are mentioned eveyone is 'great initiative, sonic weapons are great/ suck eggs'.

    Just remember, slaaneshi bikes can take all upgrades of undivided. So you can get melta bikers with the added initiative in CC

    Now carry on spewing pearls of knowledge! *gets note pad out*
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  10. #9
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    It depends on who your playing, against MEQs I would probably spring for a small squad of Khorne bikers, and bring a unit of blood letters in with them. Their armor will be next to useless, and you have the additional bonus of getting Bloodletters into the fray a lot faster.
    Most other armies I would stick with the Slannesh bikers. Sonic weaponry is personally my favorite in the game. And since bikes can move and shoot heavy weapons ( least I think they can, its been ages since I've used bikes) you get all those nice 3 sonic plaster shots off, with an effective threat range of 36 inches. Plus you can give them melta guns, and what not making them good for picking off tanks. Then yes, there is always the Daemonettes that you can summon to them.
    For tournaments or when you just plain don't know what your going up against, stick with Undivided marines. They are much more flexible and can summon any type of daemon to them, which is a huge help.
    With that said, keep in mind the disadvantages that all bikes have.
    1. High Point cost- these are some the most expensive models available to chaos, it cost nearly 120 points for a squad of three
    2.Terrain- difficult terrain can really ruin a bike squads day. Some times there is no avoiding it though and you have to take the risk and plow threw it. And when you do every 1 that you roll hurts alot.
    3. Fire magnets Most players know just what a squad of chaos bikes can do, and will dedicate a fair amount of firepower to take them out,, and being that you tend to have small squads... well you can only pass so many saves.
    But even with those problems bikers are still a great unit that add a lot of mobility to a chaos marine army. They also help break up the tempo of the game sometimes giving you a chance to recover and deal with certain unexpected problems while your opponent deals with that squad of daemons that just showed up an his door step.
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  11. #10
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    Wow, good comments in this thread. This is nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by LictorInTheGrass View Post
    Better question... are you planning to do a Khorne AND Slannesh army? Daemons as well?
    You can't do that. I'll assume thats not the case.
    Honestly my "army" is an amorphus blob of chaos-tainted undecidedness. I figure I'll be playing black legion with some random mix of whatever I can come with for awhile. The only demons I have are furies. About the khorne/slaanesh mix, with a nurgle/undivided HQ you could theoretically have both khorne and slaanesh stuff, they'd just have to both be elites. But no, I wasn't actually planning on doing that.

    Edit: a Tzeentch hq would let you have khorne/slaanesh bikers as elites as well... always forgetting the ol' tzeentch.
    Last edited by Lord Byron; November 20th, 2006 at 05:29.

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