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I just can't get around em. My friend makes use of them more effectively than most. He fields two epistolaries with 5 man termy command squads, two assault cannons in each, sometimes with a chaplain in one as well, to add hurt. The rest of his army is really shooty.
Ok the only thing that can take his librarian on is a khorne prince. All others just get force weaponed. He needs 6's against my T6 prince you say? Well he just uses veil of time and gets those 6's, I fail a single invulnerable, poof. Force weaponed. Bog him down with daemons? Easy, he just uses fear of the darkness and poofs my daemons. Especially those with low leadership like furies. Roll a 5 with 2 dice? Woops I rolled an 11, there goes six of them. Kill him before he kills me? HA! It's almost impossible. Only a slaanesh prince with furious charge can hit b4 his I6 Libby. And he wont kill him in one go. So woops, he gets force weaponed and power fisted. Dead prince. Ok so I'll use my khorne prince with a collar right? Doesn't do much good if he gets smashed by the squad's powerfists. Should I shoot him then assault the weakened squad? Easier said than done. He Deepstrikes in my face (in/behind whatever terrain is available).
It takes soooooo much to bring these guys down, I don't have much left to deal with the rest of his army.
I don't even want to go into when he manages to get the charge with the squad that has a chaplain in it...
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!! :wacko:
Sounds like you've got a bit of a problem. Veil of time shouldn't help him to much unless he casts it from one librarian to the other. You can't use a psychic power AND the force weapons ability in the same turn.
Well against 2 librarians characters aren't the answer, he will just force weapon them before you can hit. This means you have to use troops.
Cover doesn't really help terminators as they already have an invulnerable save.
rapid-firing plasma guns. those are guaranteed to make their points back. Havocs /w 4 plasma guns either infiltrating in a rhino could be devastating. Another option is khorne berserkers, they cut down terminators as easy as scout marines! Since hes deep-striking close just blood frenzy straight into him.
Plasma cannons hurt too, since they deep-strike they are as close together as physically possible. A dreadnought /w plasma cannon will screw them over so much. Although beware the assault cannons shooting it up as soon as they drop.
Probably your best bet though is daemons. Bloodletters will ignore his saves and absorb his power fists to some degree. Daemonettes will rend him to death. Either way hes going to be losing a lot more points than you are.
Also a power weapon and daemonic strength (and mutation if you have the points) on every champion. He will fear charging anyone.
If your fielding a Khorne army, give all your champions and lord/dp/lt collar of khorne. Bye bye force weapon :lol:
My Arena Champions: Kharn'eth The Bloodcleaver and Gorzag Iron Jaw
Points of interest for dealing with librarians with chaos. (I've very aware you said some of these already Rob & Link)
Only one psychic power a turn, the force weapon ability counts as a psychic power. No veil of time + force weapon it's an illegal combo, it's one or the other.
Khorne: Collar of Khorne it's an amazing, inexpensive, and often overlooked. Ignore force weapons! Ignore bad Mojo from other psychic powers on a 2+. Note veil of time targets the librarian not you, so it won't help you. This is probably going to be your best bet as you've already mentioned having a Khorne Daemon Prince.
Tzeenitch: Has the daemon weapon the Warp Blade that nullifies half the time forcing perils of the warp when it does for anything nearby. This would work against both veil of time AND the force weapon ability. But while it has the oppurtunity to do him harm, it isn't as reliable as the Collar. You can also add a Talisman of Tzeenitch to make it a bit harder to pass his psychic tests for only a few points.
Nurgle: You could always take some plague swords with this mark, they're almost force weapons working half the time rather than on a psychic test. Show him how annoying it is by returning the favor. (I've done this one to my Daemonhunter player buddy, it's most gratifing) No protection in nurgle though.
Slaanesh: Though a mighty fine chaos god, he doesn't have too much to offer in countering librarians directly it does have a fun trick up it's sleave. That I think may be the real solution to your problem rather than countering the librarian. I'll get to it in a few moments.
In the end it sounds like you're having trouble with terminator squads deep striking shooting you up, then assaulting you the next turn.
Deep strike in an amazingly usefull tool, but it can be used against him if you are prepared. As already mentioned, Plasma cannons are very nice for this, but the only way you can have one of those is on a dreadnaught. Battlecannons also do well here, but don't cut it for 2+ saves. There are a few things you can do, pardon me if you can't do all of these I'm not sure wich legion you play (I'm assuming black legion or World eaters)
Black Legion option (this is how I deal with the situation you need not follow this to the letter take it as more of an idea): Take a few of regular marine squads with bolters & 2 plasma, make them ~8 men strong, and give them an AC with a powerfist, and the Mark of Chaos Undivided & icons. Keep them near your lord. When the opponent deep strikes in damage will be done, but you can then summon daemons in to assist, move then rapid fire into them with plasma. then charge them with daemons (in this case Daemonettes or Bloodletters)
World eaters can do similarly except rather than take plasma guns take chain axes and charge allong side the bloodletters (daemonettes not being an option this time.)
Remember you don't need to throw you best HQ at his HQ, counter it with a cheaper unit that will beat it, and let your HQ do what he does best: squad killing. A squad of daemons can often do what is too costly for your HQ to do, and with only a wound a piece have nothing to fear from a force weapon. Anyway I've said enough.
Votewar MKV 2nd place. . .
Back from internet limbo, and glad to be here.
But one librarian can cast veil of time on the other though and the other can still force weapon the prince.
As veil of time only affects the casting librarian I fail to see why this would help the space marine player. But you are correct.
Votewar MKV 2nd place. . .
Back from internet limbo, and glad to be here.
Veil of Time only affects the casting librarian? you learn something new every day.
Well I'm wrong on that point then.
To stop this post from being considered spam I'll add something useful to it. When he deep-strikes you are forced to take the 16 assault cannon shots but afterwards you can do whatever you want. Consider plasma/melta infiltrating havocs. I don't know how it would work but plasma havocs are a common tactic anyway (endorsed by Caluin!).
Yeah, my bro loves to run Collar of Khorne on his lords and champions (he plays Eldar often).
But they are also only as fragile as the other commander units. A well-placed Dreadaxe or Berserker Glaive can cut down a librarian easily. Give it a try.
Plus, have you considered shooting him? Apparently he's giving you the roughest time in CC. Just stay back and pound him with tons of shots.
Is he immune to instant death?
Otherwise I would have suggested the darkblade lord, and just vitctimise said chaplain/librarian.
Jormagi pretty much nailed it on the head, but i'd like to support the idea for plasma havocs also.
Plasma havocs are expensive and suicidal and extremely destructive. You have to use them wisely and in the right place. A terminator command squad is definitely the right place.
Remember, you have the move option, so stay in cover, and even that many assault cannons shouldn't be too much of a problem.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
I've had my fair share of fightning Librarians. They are much worse then their title give away I tell you - but you seem to have noticed this... Never be late returning books in the dark future...
I like to use Screamers to cut them down.
Same Initiative and they can allocate all their attacks to the IC in CC.
Healty strength and good attacks, not the best staying power but you can't get it all...