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Ok, i have a close combat squad mounted in a rhino, 10 CSM, from experience, what's the best special weapons load? (i know plasma pistols are basically a waste)
- 2 meltaguns
- 2 flamers
- 1 meltagun + 1 flamer
If anyone could give me an opinion and some reasoning, that'd be much appreciated.
“You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred.” ~ Woody Allen
Who are your opponents? What does the rest of your list look like? Can you put those extra eight points into something more useful?
Questions like that need to be asked first. But I can say this - the 1/1 option is right out. You shouldn't be mixing special weapons in a squad.
I dislike Flamers. I think they're conditional weapons that fail to perform against most people's armies. Worst of all, if you're using them in a Close Combat squad, you often have to choose between firing them to full effect or charging. Many times you can't do both, due to the small charge range of the unit carrying them. Worse yet, you run the risk of killing off too many models and leaving your units outside of charge range in the Assault Phase.
I say it's best to stick with the Meltaguns for versatility, unless you just happen to go up against a large number of Horde type armies in your area.
I'm going to suggest 2 meltas. I have tried 2 flamers, but as Cal said, they are just not as widely useful. Basicaly a horde army 2 flamers are nice to have, but everything else they just don't perform well.
In my AL army I use 2 meltas in my CC units. Almost guarenteed 2 kills on the way to assault. And as you said, potential for popping a tank. I had mine sneak up on an Ork truck full of boys (Infiltrate behind cover, rolled a 6 on terrain, went first) and blew the snot out of it. He jumped most of them out (stupid ork rules) and then I assaulted in.
So, in general, mixing weapons is a bad idea because when you want to use one or the other because the circumstances are right, you will almost always wish you had a second of that weapon.
Against MEQs, other mechanized units and MCs, 2x meltas are the best thing. You can melt oponents and then charge, or simply do drive-bys.
If you KNOW you'll be facing a lot of bugs and IG, Kroot, cultitsts, you name it, low armor then flamers MIGHT be a decent choice. The problem comes when you have to get that close to use them either out of the rhino or from the rhino, you're a prime target and I'd say half the time you'll be shot at and/or assaulted before you get a chance to use the flamers.
They usually work best from units that can move 12'' in the move so you can maximize the roasty toasty goodness.
W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
If you use flamers, make sure you have the movement to make it usefull.
Drive by shootings with flamers, and raptors with flamers have uses.
Personally I like flamers because of their hit nature. That said, 8/10 times you should be taking melta guns.
MArines are already ferocious against lower armour and T things. Melta guns literally open up tanks and monsters.
Obviously this limits your choices, as most of the Chaos Codex is geared for CC. Though, I do wonder if Plague Marines in a Rhino might do very well, since they're meant to recieve charges rather than give them. On the other hand, Plasma Guns are typically a better choice for Plague Marines.
I'll try to explain - I'm not very good at putting my thoughts into text, so I apologize if I'm not clear.
The effective range of the Flamer Template is around eight inches. If you measure the template, you'll see that the big 'blob' at the end where most models lay under is in the seven to eight inch range. Get under that range, and you're wasting a good flamer template on just a few hit underneath the 'stream' part. Sort of a waste of a good special weapon, IMO.
Now, if you hang back a bit to make sure you get the maximum effect from the Flamers, you set yourself out of charge range. This is bad.
Now, you say "But Cal! Units are models deep! Can't I put myself in charge range and put the 'blob' of the Template over the back models in the unt?"
Well, yes you can. usually. And that's the way it's supposed to work. However, no longer is an opponent required to remove models underneath the template as casualties. What the opponent can do, and smart ones do, is remove models from the front of the unit. This has the potential to make your unit need to cover more than six inches, which leaves them stranded and blastable..
So you're left with a choice - move real close to make sure you have a charge, or try to gamble and get a good Flamer template in on the unit.
Now, you always run this sort of gamble with any shooting you do. Meltas, Plasmas, even basic Bolt Pistols all run this risk. The difference is that you can get right up in the enemy's face and still have 100% effectiveness of your weapons, where as Flamers require more distance.
Ah, I do use 2 flamers in my Undevided raptor squad. I tried three but ran into the issue Cal spoke of, reagarding beng to close to use the flamer effictively.
But what I do is set my raptors in a single file line, 10 across. One flamer on either end. I can almost always get them within charge range, but because the flamers are on the ends I get a decent cover under the template. I have not be so unsatisfied with this to make me want to not use those 2 flamers in the raptors. What's more fun, are the few times I'm able to "hit and run" out on their turn, flame and charge again on mine. Cleared out a full squad of stealers once. I lost that game but that was a pure moral victory.
But in ground assaulting units I think flamers are not so good. You move to slow etc to get to use them right. And don't forget, even though flamers, and meltas, are assault weapons, you still loose one attack when in CC for that model.