Wargear, Gifts and Weapons... less is more? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
  1. #1
    Senior Member Misanthrope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    32
    Posts
    483
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    64 (x1)

    Wargear, Gifts and Weapons... less is more?

    So I'm having a problem.

    Basically, every time I make up an army list I just can't seem to not load up my HQ with every possible gift imaginable (rules allowing, of course). I know others have this same problem too. So my question is, is it better to take an uber-powerful, uber-expensive HQ, or save points and take a mediocre one and with the points save take an extra troop or two? Is it more tactically and strategically effective to take super-troopers with Stature/Strength/Essence/Resilience/Wings/DaemonWeapon/Bong/Etc or simply to take an HQ with 1-2 gifts and/or pieces of equipment?

    Takka n' Wakka's Dakka Attacka! 33W / 6L / 1D

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    272
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    -4 (x0)

    my friends( Alpha Legion and Emperor Children) love to boost up their HQ so they are cheesy, and they're always worth their points, we are always doing 2000pts game so spending 250-300 pts for a cheese lord doesn't matter for them. I am playing Thousand Sons so i prefer a Lord that can shoot and kill troops then a lord that can kill other Lords, cause anyway, my troops are too resistant to be killed fast by a lord

  4. #3
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    with Alice
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,843
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    946 (x8)

    Here's the thing (did you know there was a thing?):

    Cheap lords work well. Expensive lords also work well. It depends on your army, the environment, and your strategy. The best cheap h.qs are usually ranged models. Here are a couple of examples:

    Chaos Lieut.
    *Daemonic flight
    *Kai gun

    Chaos Lieut.
    *MoT
    *Daemoinc flight
    *Bolt of Change

    These h.qs have a very effective ranged ability/weapon. They are cheap, so it's easy to make their points back.

    Expensive lords should be configured for c.c., because it's very difficult to make a ranged h.q. that will actually be able to make his points back. The general consensus is that 10% of your total army's points is the maximum one should spend on an h.q.. I also follow the rules that an h.q. should very rarely go above 165 points, which means that in 1850+ battles you're investing less than 10% of your total army points in an h.q.. Here's the reason behind the 165 cap: In larger battles, the h.q. is less of a threat to your opponent, simply because your opponent has more ways of dealing w/ him and because your opponent will have more units. Additionally, daemonic stature (for instance) actually become less effective in 2000+ games for the same reasons as just stated- i.e., our opponent will have more ways of dealing with the h.q. at range, and hence, should be able to significantly wound him prior to him engaging in c.c.. For this reason, stature works best at the 1500 point level. That said, Stature is far from the best option when making a prince.

    For 165 points you can make a very effective c.c. lord. Spending more points merely increasing his overall utility, but does not tyipcally add to his c.c. effectiveness for the cost of the upgrades. Here are a couple of c.c. lords (non-statured). I prefer the non-statured, because they can charge into c.c. on the first turn.

    Chaos Lord
    *MoN
    *Manreaper
    *Infiltrate
    *Daemonic speed
    *Daemonic strength
    *Daemonic aura
    *Nurgle's rot
    *Frag grenades

    Chaos Lord
    *MoCU
    *Dark Blade
    *Infiltrate
    *Daemonic speed
    *Daemonic resilience
    *Daemonic aura
    *Bolt pistol
    *Frag grenades
    Last edited by Rabbit; December 22nd, 2006 at 19:55.
    Spambot kill tally. . .337

  5. #4
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Posts
    7,076
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputation
    790 (x8)

    Check out the HQ configuration tacita - there's some excellent Lord in there who don't break the bank. I think about 150-170 is about right.

    One of Chaos's things is incredibly hard HQs, so the occasional indulgence can be forgiven. We alone get the brood lord initiative Chaos warscythe.

    Most of the time, I think people don't really specifically know what they want to acheive with their HQ. So they deck him out with some stuff, then they want to cover their bases on a different field, so deck him out some more. Then they realise he's expensive and ironically spend even more to protect him. So you often see lords who have incredibly high Strength attacks, yet inexplicably have melta bombs too...

    It's best to focus your Lord at 1 thing so he's just 1 element in your army. HQ killer, Squad killer, shooter, tank buster. At the end of the day, the lord is a unit of your army like every one else and needs to compelment the rest of the army.

    It's just that with Chaos, he can be lethal at pretty much anything.
    LO Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    Anyone who's as loyal and motivated to doing what they love as you are is respectable in my book
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyric
    I'm taking leave of my senses and shall be out of my mind until further notice.

  6. #5
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Posts
    3,922
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    385 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Misanthrope View Post
    So I'm having a problem.

    Basically, every time I make up an army list I just can't seem to not load up my HQ with every possible gift imaginable (rules allowing, of course). I know others have this same problem too. So my question is, is it better to take an uber-powerful, uber-expensive HQ, or save points and take a mediocre one and with the points save take an extra troop or two? Is it more tactically and strategically effective to take super-troopers with Stature/Strength/Essence/Resilience/Wings/DaemonWeapon/Bong/Etc or simply to take an HQ with 1-2 gifts and/or pieces of equipment?
    Chose a job for your lord/lieutenant and stick with it.
    I completely understand the desire to make him the super ultimate ultra man-whacker, but like you said, it gets points heavy fast and rarely effective because of it.

    I see the link to the "configuration" posts are up. Its a pretty good resource.

    As long as you have an idea of what you want your HQ to do, you will shave points off immediately.

    Some examples are: Trooper killers,HQ killer,countercharge, etc.
    Once you know what you want him to do, and that depends on how the rest of your army is set up. HQs are an excellent resource but they work BEST when supporting the army, not the other way around(like real leadership, any good leader knows that giving their workers the proper tools first and then doing what he/she can to support is the best situation)
    Works the same way.

    I hope this helps.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Age
    36
    Posts
    438
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    54 (x1)

    I find that cheap ones work wonders. My typical prince runs 133-138 points. Statured with just basic statline upgrades, speed, and a little invuln save goodness. On average he kills at least 150% of his points value. Rarely does he not make his points back.

    Today, he killed, by himself (no support in CC with these things at all):
    Game 1) 8 tactical marines and 6 marine bikers
    Game 2) Space Marine Master w/ 6-man retinue, 6-man marine scout squad, 4 tac marines, 3 imperial guardsmen

    He went down eventually in both games, but took an aweful lot with him both times. Cheap can be very effective.

  8. #7
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    708 (x8)

    It all depends on what you need, and how you can fill that role with the Prince. Exactly like Boydgarret mentioned earlier.

    Need a huge fire magnet? Take a Statured Khorne Lord with the Glaive and Feel No Pain. Watch him absorb horrendous amounts of firepower, indirectly protecting the rest of your army.

    Need something cheap and killy? Nurgle Lord with Manreaper, Speed, and Infiltration. One of the best set ups there is, and your enemy will quickly learn respect for him.

    Myself, I go with a balanced view, leaning on the side of inexpensive. My Lord, set up as such...

    Chaos Lord
    MoCU, Furious Charge, Infiltration, Frag Grenades, CCW
    Dark Blade, Speed, Aura, Strength, Resilience, Spiky Bits

    ...comes out to 172 points, which is less than 10% of my total points limit. Not so expensive that losing him costs me the game, and not so cheap that he can't do anything. He's very balanced, and I can reliably expect him to be a right nightmare for a few turns before my opponent can deal with him. In one memorable game against some Blood Angels, he was able to take out a Chaplain first turn, wipe out the Death Company on the opponent's turn, and then proceed to slaughter through four minimal Heavy Weapons teams before falling victim to a lucky Lascannon shot.

    Anyways, enough bragging. I do have a point.

    The point is that your HQ should do the same exact thing as any other unit you buy - it should complement the rest of your list. It doesn't do you any good to have an Infiltrating unit of killy doom if there's nothing there to back him up. Does you no good to have a fire magnet if you don't have units worth protecting.


  9. #8
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Posts
    3,922
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    385 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin View Post

    ...comes out to 172 points, which is less than 10% of my total points limit.
    WOOT! I've infected Caluin with my 10% rule!!!
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  10. #9
    Has a monkey! Imperialis_Dominatus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Montana
    Age
    27
    Posts
    1,630
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    103 (x5)

    I'm leaning towards a heavy Lord with Lightning Claws, Infiltrate and D. Speed, among other goodies. I've already got him lined up, just got to get the bitz. He's a troop killer type- probably don't want to send him against CC HQ's, though perhaps CC troopers. But that's just what I want him to do. I also like the flying Lt. with Kai gun idea- might have to steal it! But yeah, as above, what do you want your Lord to kill? Balance that against the plan for the rest of your army and go with it.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Misanthrope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    32
    Posts
    483
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    64 (x1)

    Well, I see myself using my Lord more simply to support my regular troops (who, at the moment, are Worldeaters, so they're all about CC), particularly for attacking bigger targets (enemy HQ's) and just adding lots of attacks to the fray. I've kitted him to be anywhere from 87 to 150 points total (he's an Lt, for 1000pt) but so far I really haven't had much success with him at all... First game I played with him he didn't do jack squat, got ambushed and annihilated by a Wraithlord before he made a single kill. He was kitted out for basically anti-troop combat.

    What kind of gear and gifts can I give an Lt to make him a more suitable anti-MC/anti-HQ killer, specifically for 1000pt lists?
    Takka n' Wakka's Dakka Attacka! 33W / 6L / 1D

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts