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how do chaos legions replace their dead brethren? are they able to harvest their geneseed through daemonic means?
Member of the Fluffmasters Clan
At the end of the day, it's silly trying to play the numbers game with chaos. If they are as bad they are in 40k rules, all those badass veterans would have died out millenia ago. Even in the Inquisitor rules, which are much more fluff based they would still die from time to time. There are some really powerful enemies out there..
One thing is for sure, the chaos legions don't have usable geneseed. Geneseed is very fragile stuff, prone to mutation and corruption (which is why loyalist chapters are so crazy about the purity of their geneseed.) After years in the eye of terror, the geneseed of the traitor legions has become so corrupted that it's unusable.
They do reproduce though..
1) They can steal loyalist geneseed.. Loyalist marines are fanatical about protecting the gene seed of their chapter, but this doesn't mean that sometimes a chaos warband doesn't get lucky and ambush a shipment on its way to be tithed to the Adeptus Mechanicus or something like that. There's some evidence that those marines created from other chapters gene seed are subject to prejudice by the 'true' chaos marines.
2) They can use the methods taught by Fabius Bile.. There's a lot of confusion about how this works, and how safe and stable the resulting creature is, but it's clearly a pretty sinister process which is quite different from normal marine reproduction. Judging by what I've read, it's all about chemical enhancement and direct genetic manipulation, and tends to leave the recruit pretty unstable both mentally and physically.
How much do they recruit? Well.. that's all very unclear. Certainly less than the loyalists do, as fluffwise they have a much lower turnover and until 'recently' weren't very good at making new marines. But it all depends on your point of view.. Some people think the majority of the traitor legions are made up of recruits, while others, myself included, think it's mostly the original veterans with recruits padding out their numbers, and that the really low attrition can be explained away by just how hard chaos marines are supposed to be in the fluff.
They have also been known to capture loyalist space marine scouts and corrupt them to chaos.
Also, in fluff terms, if a planet doesn't have loyalist marines to defend it, its probably totally screwed if some Night Lords or Alpha Legion decide to have a party on their planet. Chaos Space Marines don't go down easy, each one of them is supposed to be the equivalent of a veteran loyalist marine at the outside, and when some of them are present in a LatD force assaulting a planet, it's a pretty sure bet that the planet is going to fall.
Last edited by Terraneaux; January 4th, 2007 at 08:17.
Don't forget Fabius Bile. He's the one who keeps making new Chaos Marines...
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
chaos geneseed isn't unusable, it's harder to use for implantation bu it still can be done, the chances of getting a succesfull trooper is just less.
Another thing the chaos marines do it cut the geneseed for death troops and them use them for implantation.
Fabius uses the dark technologie of cloning to produce large numbers of chaos marines and this is how he makes sure nonne of them will kill him.
And chaos recruit constantly, they check out as many worlds they see in and outside of the EoT and suitable candidates are taking weather they like it or not to the homeworld.
From the fluff, Iron Warriors would gather all the dead, grind them up in big grinders to get the geneseed and nurients, feed it to demonclaba (think 500lb pregnent women) who would create and birth a skinless fetus. Then, if the fetus wasn't horribly deformed, it would be given skin and it would grow up (quickly) into a new CSM. Nice, huh? The skin and demonclaba (sp?) all came from slaves that Chaos captures on it's little outings into the real world. They have machines that feed slaves until they get incredibly fat, then they starve them, rinse and repeat a few times, then they strip the skin off and strech it out for a few days. Gives them lots of skin to go around.
This is from the "Dark Sky, Black Sun" book, in case anyone else wants to read up on that.
So it is possible for CSM to make new Marines (various means, as described above) and probably a great many others that have not been described.
They constantly corrupt other Marines or the take Chaos Champions from the worlds inside the Eye of Terror or the Maelstrom and make them into marines. The actual processes might be more magical/daemonical/perverted than th loyalist version but in essence it is the same thing - brainwashing, replacement of organs, implantation of bionics/damonic gifts, improving the strength/endurance/speed of the body and the black carapace.
The ony army where I see a problem with this is the Thousand Sons. Somehow I don't think they recast the Rubric of Ahriman every 100 years or so. But maybe all they need to do is reseal the armor with a bit of filler and that restores the spirit inside??? =)
Shut up and play.
I was thinking of having my dark apostle capture an captain/chaplain/librarian and cunningly expose the failures of the Imperium to him. Then, when the marine miraculously escapes, he finds his way back to his chapter only to find himself declared a heretic. At that point he realizes that the dark apostle was in fact correct, and engages in a chapter war much like the soul drinkers for those who have read the first of that series. Those who survive turn to chaos and become word bearers. Of course, that's just the skeleton of the fluff, but how's that sound to you guys?
Member of the Fluffmasters Clan
1th : When a chaos marine is considered a casualty in game term, this include being only disbled from battle by loosing an arm or by falling unconscious. So not all your chaos marines die on the battlefield.
2nd : If you've read enough about chaos, you'll understand that chaos space marines are only a small part of the whole chaos force. There are also daemons and Traitors / Cultists legions which are composed of mutants and heretics and traitors from IG. These are the real bulk of chaos warriors. The chaos marines are rare and few in number compared to loyalists marines. If you've read the book Exe of Terror, there is a good example of how does chaos marines recruits.
3rd : Also, don't forget the power of chaos. Even without geneseed, chaos gods may provide chaos legions with stuff that would upgrade a normal human to the status of Chaos Marines. All he need now is the power armour and everythings is fine (I guess).
4th : As IG company often fall to chaos, you might asume that isolated loyalist marines factions that spend too much time near the eye of terror or another chaos atuned region might be affected by the taint of chaos. If you've played to Dawn of War, you might have seen this effect.
5th : A particular loyalist leader might become tainted and then might try to bring his fellow bretherens into the abyss with him. That's mostly what happened during the heresy.
Chaos is powerfull, don't underestimate it.
CHAOS Undiv.: won 14/22 games EC: 4/7 WE: 6/9 DG: 10/15, TS: 3/7 Orks : 13/20 SM NL : 1/6 TAU: 14 of 24 IG: 3/7
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Don't give the enemy a moment to consider how badly they are being beaten.
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