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I was wondering what predator loadouts you chaos players have found worthwhile. Currently I am looking at running two predators; one decked out with lascannons, and the other with heavy bolter sponsons and an autocannon. I threw demonic possession on both.
A few questions:
1. Is it more worthwhile to have an anti-tank pred with twin-linked lascannons or an autocannon? The lascannon is more powerful, but against enemy vehicles with av less than 14, the autcannon remains more effective and is technically a defensive weapon.
2. Which vehicle upgrades are worth it? Demonic Possession stood out to me, but also Mutated Hull, which is a bit on the expensive side. Also, have you guys found Parasitic Possession to be worth it?
Mutated Hull and Daemonic Possession are great on predators but if you only have the points for 1 then I would say daemonic possession.
Basically: all lascannons, great against tanks but slightly overkill. If its your only source of anti-tank however (i.e. khorne) its good.
autocannon, 2 lascannons, great against tanks without spending to much. Is the preferred choice on this forum.
Lascannon, 2 heavy bolters, popular with the loyalist players. This tank can do either job but isn't brilliant at either. Its guns aren't that great but it can move and shoot everything meaning its quite mobile compared to the other anti-tank options.
autocannon, 2 heavy bolters, good against non-MEQ infantry. Its generally looked down on in favour of bolter infantry but it does work.
Last edited by LordLink; January 6th, 2007 at 11:41.
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++ posted same time as Link - apologies for echo ++
I'd say that your gut feeling is the best on this one. Here's a few basic thoughts:
T.L Lascannon - Annihilator Pattern.
Should only be used when you need at least 1 guaranteed lascannon hit, and should be reserved for cult armies - death guard and world eaters.
Otherwise it's horribly expensive. Cost to damage output really isn't that good.
Autocannon - Destructor Pattern
Should be the standard weapon of choice. A good fire rate, decent S. Usefull against most opponents - especially skimmers and what not.
Las cannons are the standard in my opinion. High power, rate of fire is much better than the TL Lascannon and they're much cheaper too.
Heavy Bolters are a bit misleading in my opinion. On paper the move and shoot looks great.. but they're really only usefull if you know you're going to be facing a lot of light infantry. I certainly won't rely on Heavy bolters to damage anything which it T4 anymore.
Daemonic possession is generally regarded as the best. This keeps the predator constantly moving and shooting throughout most glancing hit results. This is excellent for armies which rely on glancing hits to stop a tank from shooting.
Mutated hull - if you can afford it, get it. But, there's probably better places to spend the points. Note that a lot of eldar weaponry renders this upgrade useless.
Parasitic possession - Works incredibly well when paired with daemonic possession, but then things start getting very very expensive. Probably not worth it on its own though, it's a lot of points for something which isn't guaranteed.
perhaps the fluff masters could help us.. but.. didn't the Spacewolves develope the Annihilator pattern predator post heresy? I thought they used long fang lascannons on their predators so they could break out of a seige or something.
Maybe that's old fluff, but if it isn't there's a serious continuity error as the World Eaters love their annihilator patters predators.
Personally, I would love it if Chaos got some unique weaponry apart from just blast masters. Predator mounted sponson kaiguns would be great.
I'd like to see a LOT of weapon variety on our Preds.. is it true that SM Dreadnoughts can usually only take either TL Lascannons or Assault Cannon? If so, that'd make our Dread much more versatile -- which I'd like to see on our Preds, too. It's one thing for the Imperium to rely and enforced more standardized armaments but I'd expect the Traitor Legions would have modified their Predators to mount any weapon imaginable... Afterall many of them are 10,000 years old, and their weapon options should change considerably depending on what he particular force using them has around. So yeah, I think it'd be cool to see Chaotic Predators with Plasma Cannons, heavy flamer sponsons, kai guns, etc etc.. are there any rules for these in any of the IA books?
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Sadly not Misanthrope.
The closest we get is the 'Chaos Shells' in Dawn of War.
Epic does it a little better, there are certainly unique vehicles there, like Silver Towers for Tzeentch, Debasers for Slaanesh.
There's so much potential it's hard not to think up some cool ideas for Chaos vehicles ideas.
What would be a good standard layout when you main opponent is Eldar. I have been using TL-Las turret and Hvy bolter sponsons so far(dont own a pred yet, but have been proxying). I like it, but its a bit different than my TL-las and hvy flamers pred I used to use in 2nd ed. I like being mobile, especially against the Eldar, but the TL is my only lascannons in my army so far(mostly autocannons, and one Plasma cannon on my dread). What does everyone think.
For shutting down vehicles, I'd recommend Autocannons and Lascannon sponsons. The TL. Lascannon is truly a waste as some eldar vehicles discount anything above S8.
With this load out you have 4 high Strength shots at marine Bs - which is a good recipe for at least stopping the Eldar vehicle for a turn if not nuking it.
That said, with holofields, the situation becomes a lot more bleak and you may wish to concentrete on the infantry parts of the eldar army rather than waste firepower against invincible falcons.
If this is the case, then i'd recommend autocannons and heavy bolters.
Definitely do not take mutated hull.
I've always liked this particular discussion, mainly because people have differing and valid opinions on what Predators should look like.
It seems to me that anywhere you go, Loyalists will always tell you to go with TLLC/Heavy Bolter setup, while Chaos players will tell you to go with the Autocannon/Lascannon route. I think I've finally figured out why, though - Space Marines can afford to be versatile, while Chaos can not.
Space Marines have certain things going for them that Chaos can't claim. For instance, they can fill up Elites choices with Dreadnoughts that are controllable and formidable (TLLC/ML combination with Tank Hunters). I've noticed that Elites choices in Loyalist armies go unused otherwise. They also have the Assault Cannon, which can function in an Anti-Infantry and Anti-tank role as it sees fit. It sort of reminds me of an Obliterator - able to do just about anything you need it to, and you never have to worry about it being the wrong pick against a particular army.
Those are just two examples, but they illustrate that Loyalist armies have strength in versatility. They can afford to be a little less than optimal in their Predator setups, because they have other things that can balance out their forces for them.
Now, taking a look at Chaos legions. We have really only two viable weapons that can perform multiple roles - the Obliterator, and the Autocannon. The Obliterator is basically a walking weapons platform. The Autocannon is a superb weapon as well, especially when coupled with the Tank Hunters ability and taken four to a Havoc squad.
But can those alone make up for the loss of speciality in our Predators? I say no.
Obliterators are extremely limited in most armies, with some being barred from them straight out. Autocannon Havoc squads take up precious Heavy Support options, meaning for every squad you take, you have one less Predator avaliable to you.
Because of this, Chaos is generally forced to specialize their units and give them a certain role to perform. Many armies already do this, but Chaos does it probably more often than any other army, with the exception of the New Eldar. This means that when you buy a unit for your army, any unit (besides Obliterators...), you're buying them to fill a role. You expect that unit to do it's role and do it well.
For this reason, Predators that have one tank hunting gun and anti-infantry sponsons will not have a place in Chaos armies. It simply isn't specialized enough, and costs too much for the performance. The only time I would ever take this variant is in a City of Death game, where mobility wins you games more often than firepower - but in this case, I'd have taken a Dread in place of the Predator.
From this point, you just have to ask yourself what role the Predator will be filling. Need reliable anti-infantry? Then take the AC/HB variant. It's mobile, and punishes an army for having a 4+ armour save. It's not so hot against MEQ armies though, as the 3+ armour saves really hurt your damage output. But it still makes for a nice distraction/mobile terrain piece, and not all units are useful through firepower alone.
The AC/Las variant is the most popular, as it's relatively cheap and performs it's anti-tank role well. People complain that it has to remain stationary to perform to it's fullest, but I've never found this to be a problem. Typically, either the Predator dies early on anyways, or there are enough targets avaliable that I've never been want for a good shot. If you have spare points and need a little bit more reliability in your anti-tank shots, then upgrade the turret to the TLLC.
Okay! Moving on to upgrades. This will be much faster.
Daemonic Possession should always be your first pick. It is hands down the best vehicle upgrade in all of Warhammer 40K. Holo-fields runs a close second, but the price tag on DP can't be beat.
Mutated Hull should only be considered when you have a lot of points left over, but is the second pick of the vehicle upgrades.
I consider Parasitic Possession to be a trash upgrade. I don't doubt that people have had good experiences with it, but I'm positive that there are others who have had bad experiences as well. The upgrade is just too random to be of any real use. But I'll admit, it's a good ugprade for friendly games.
Everything else should speak for itself. Smoke Launchers/Extra Armour are necessary upgrades, but only if you don't already have Daemonic Possession.
And last, but definetly not least, what to take against Eldar? I say go with the AC/Heavy Bolter variant. You'll have a tough time getting shots off against a mobile army, and it'll be good to be able to reposition yourself to get some shots off. You're already going to have a tough time taking down the Skimmers, so I'd leave that to other units, like AC Havocs and Oblits, and use the Preds to hunt the infantry elements.
I was under the impression that all lascannon predators was the way to go. It has been what I've been proxying the last few weeks and it has done great. I like it because it does well against all armor, even if it does feel like a waste shooting down an AV10 skimmer.
Autocannon turret is cheaper but it isn't that much better than lascannon. I guess for me the thing to keep in mind is that even though I play Iron Warriors with more than the usual number of obliterators, I still need anti-tank units. Also, all lascannon predators are great against TMCs or other high toughness characters... something that hasn't been mentioned thus far in this thread. One of my regular opponents plays a TMC list and gives his carnifexes 2+ saves so the predator definitely comes in useful in these kinds of situations. I also imagine that it helps against Necrons as well.
hey guys, i just came about this post and i was wondering if you guys would give me some advise. is the autocannon/ heavy bolter combo not effective? i was wondering cuase i was going to include a pred w/ one, but i'm wondering if the Lascannon sponsors w/ autocannon turret is better? can you move and fire it? anyway, i'm not sure though if it would be better having a pred that could tank hunt or infantry hunt as i already have a few anti tank dev squads w/ tank hunters.
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