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Recently there was a discussion about the use of Spawns in Havoc squads. I really like the idea. So I was throwing around some ideas in my head and came up with something crazy. A typical squad of Auto Cannon Havocs goes as follows…
Havocs x 8
Bolters x 4
Auto Cannon x 4
Tank Hunter x 8
The addition of a Spawn meat shield goes as follows…
Havocs x 6
Bolters x 2
Auto Cannon x 4
Tank Hunter x 6
My idea is to use two 5 man squads with spawns together.
Havocs x 5
Bolter x 1
Auto cannons x 4
Using this 2 squad 4 Auto Cannon tactic…
Standard x2 = 448 pts Wounds x16
With Spawn x2 = 442 pts Wounds x16
5 man with spawns x2 = 396 pts Wounds x14
You end up with one less meat shields per squad, but the potential of having 8 Auto Cannons firing at the same target (or different targets if need be) is something to be reckoned. Of course it would depend on what army you were facing, but these units would demand attention from your opponent and allow the rest of your army to do as they please while still doing some serious damage. Does this seem viable?
It would seem even better for MoS with Blast Masters.
Anyway it is just an idea from an amateur. Go ahead and rip it up!
Last edited by SonofTerror; February 4th, 2007 at 22:36.
Most of the time what these guys are firing at just shrugs off Bolter shots. The CMs are meat shields. I probably wouldn’t use it against a horde army, and wouldn‘t take TH either in that case because you need those shots.While the math works out, I have to ask - "Why?"
What would be the gain? You have the same amount of wounds, except one can be Instant Killed. You lose two Bolter shots in the deal, as well.I think this "Spawn unit" is very useful if you have some concept of your army and lack of points.
That is the thing. Using less points for a hard hitting double squad or single squad for that matter. For one they could get the job done they are supposed to, or they could just be a distraction to the opponent with all those bullets flying.
It’s just a theory. I will probably try it and see what happens. They don’t necessarily have to work together, but the idea of a less expensive Havoc squad is just too good. I have taken smaller Havoc squads with less meat shields just to save points before.
I actually really like this idea for a few reasons.
It makes you less vulnerable to accidental/surprise CCs. There should be a lot of emphasis on the less, because there's obviously not a whole lot of difference. While the Spawn does have worse WS, one point difference in WS shouldn't make enough difference that you'd even really notice, and since you get d6 attacks instead of one at strength 5 instead of 4 you could actually do some damage. Combine that with the actual presense of an AC which his extra attack, and giving the non-autocannon marines CC weapons and bolt pistols (in light of the fact that you'd either be out of range of whatever you're shooting at or bolters wouldn't be strong enough anyway) you might actually do damage to anything that puts you into CC. This might seem minor but also remember that this Havoc build actually costs less than the equivalent without spawn.
This also of course depends on how you play your Havocs. I usually play with 8 havocs and no MoCU and deploy my havocs very conservatively, but I might have to try this spawn thing.
You also have higher leadership from the AC allowing you so survive pinning tests/other forced leadership tests? This is pretty minor and a lot more useful in a world where you don't buy MoCUs...
Also I forget when/how allocation occurs because my friends and I usually play pretty relaxed, but I guess you could try to allocate some hits in CC or shooting to the Spawn and use its higher toughness to shrug off some more potential wounds.
These are all pretty minor, but again this build also costs less so there should ideally be no benefits.
I usually like to see both sides of debate, so also consider that this build is vulnerable to vindicare assassins, because they can nominate the model targeted and Turbo Penetrators allow two wounds instead of one, although I imagine most armies would point their assassin elsewhere.
False_Emperor - Great reply! Thanks!
Here Karmoon..Karmoon..Karmoon. I have a big bloody piece of meat for you. You have to be careful. He bites some times.
I would love to hear what Karmoon thinks about this. He is also a Havoc lover and I have already seen him suggest the use of a spawn for them.
Ah yes.. the spawns in Havoc squads. You'll notice that i've been slipping it into some of my lists recently when points need to be saved.
You only save 3 points on the classic autocannon 8. But for those slaaneshi players out there looking for man power and remaining fluffy, this is definitely the way to go.
It's mainly designed for when your meat shields are incredible expensive - slaaneshi havocs or what not.
The spawn turns out cheaper and there are other bonuses:
Not really an issue. You can choose whichever model to lose if you get hit by a rail gun. Simply choose a meatshield man. If the spawn is already on 1 wound, then you're not losing anything.
Of course.. at some point if the spawn is the last shield, then it could be a liablity.. but to be honest, by that time the havocs have either completely been decimated or have completley destroyed their quarry.
What other benefits are there?
Higher leadership, greater cc prowess. Spawn are cool in CC.. and it never hurts to have an AC.
Yes but what about the 5 man squad/s?
To get much more specific on this I think we would need an army list (even if only a concept list, like what squads/characters/tanks you would play, not necessarily specific upgrades/point costs)
I am liking 2 five man squads each with 3 autocannons.
It's only about 60 points more and you get 2 more autocannons.. although the same amount of meat shields.
IT's a lot of firepower though. especially when you can't afford two proper autocannon 8 squads.