Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
The more I play the more I’ve come to view mobile CSM squads as meat shields protecting a few special weapons and most importantly, the Aspiring Champion. These guys do so much damage during Assaults compared to the normal grunts, that I now play them with a Power Fist, D.Visage, D.Mutation, sometimes D.Strength and often with a Plasma Pistol. The chance of the Plasma Pistol killing them is very low, at just over 5% per shot.
When combined with a Lord or Lt. who can take out the enemy Sergeant, Succubus, Exarch etc, a well tooled Aspiring can smash enemy units to bits. Note that the key to the survival of your CSMs/Havocs is to remove the Power Fist/Power Weapon etc. With this in mind, I am going to try running two medium grade Lieutenants rather than one tooled Lord. Make sure your HQ is base-to-base or within 2” of the enemy Power Weapon.
Lastly, I think I’ve found a very useful tweak to our Aspirings. You can give Aspirings Furious Charge as part of their upgrades, i.e. the unit is not upgraded, but the Aspiring is. Same with Tank Hunters. An Aspiring with a Power Fist, D.Strength, Furious Charge and Tank Hunters will roll 11+D6 against vehicles. That would make a Raptor Champ very expensive, but very powerful.
The rest of your post I'm in agreement with. I recently took 45 points worth of upgrades off of my HQ and put them onto my two Assault Champions, giving them both +2 attacks and +1 strength. So far I've only played one game with them, but I've found the experience to be extremely rewarding. The difference between three attacks and five attacks a round is profound.
Well, except that Plasma Pistol part. To each their own, I suppose.
I like to just give my AC a power fist power weapon and give the squad furious charge. that way he can deal alot of damage with his power sword and use the powerfist afterwards.
That is not dead which may eternal lie,
for in strange aeons even death may die.
The only time you would want to strike in init order is if the champ is alone, and can be picked out, or if the squad could easily be wiped out before the power fist attacks. The fist is superior in all regards when he is safe in a squad.
Last edited by sephirth; April 12th, 2007 at 00:46.
Another squad will almost always benefit you more than a few upgrades to all squads. Remember: Troops before Toys.
Yup, I do apologise. I though I had a nice idea for the tweak, .... it's just completely illegal cheating etc. I read pg14, and go too excited. I'll try reading all the relevant sections next time - duhh! Luckily I often give my assaulty squads Furious Charge anyway.
I understand where Kossolax wants go. It's very tempting to have a Champ who hits with S5 or S6 on I5 rather than S8 on I1. The problem with the I5 Champ is that he can't deal well with Dreads, and high Toughness creatures, and doesn't autokill T4.
If you do take a non-Power Fist Champ, you may need Melta Bombs just in case a Walker joins in the combat. However they a hardly a good option compared to a PF.
As ever, anyone who likes the look of both Power Fist and Power Weapon, should try 'em both out..... but we all know the PF will win the day.
Also have a try with Plasma Pistols sometime guys. It can be well worth it when you fight MEQs, Termies, 4+saves and T5+ dudes. One dead Marine, Necron etc pays for the Pistol.
Of course if he charges a dready he can always opt to use the fist when he charges in as per normal.
Mirage Arcana Podcast
The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
The plasma pistol is 1 attack before charging.
For the same points you could get spikey bits or even master craft the mighty power fist.
I'll use the same arguement. Once you get into CC, even if you kill 1 extra 'rine, necron, hormagunt - you've paid your point back.
I know where you're coming from Ramon. But, the plasma pistol is just one extra attack at a lower strength which could kill you. Spikey bits/master crafted is an extra attack which can't kill you.
Unless.. you're fighting a skimmer i suppose. But then.. why the heck are you running after it and not autocannoning it into oblivion??
None the less, I agree with the main sense of the post entirely. Ideally EVERY squad should have an aspiring champ with a power fist, mutation and scary face. It's not always possible though.
They're just insanely good.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
Certainly there is good and bad with shooting before assaulting. I made a classic mistake yesterday. I shot at a squad I wanted to charge, which removed enough models to put them out of charge range. What an idiot!
I have found the Plamsa Pistol very useful through, despite is obvious buit in problem. It does give secondary offence against weak vehicles, and can reach out and touch your enemies when you're still out of charge range. The ability to shoot at a vehicle and then charge it with a Furious Power Fist is useful. However, as you pointed out, Master Crafting and Spiky Bits are reliable.
I mentioned the idea of two basic HQ guys rather than one big one, and last night actually bumped into my Iron Warrior opponent with exactly that. I was playing World Eaters with enough terrain to get me close in. If he didn't have two medium-tooled HQs I would have smashed his army to bits. In truth a 100pt Lt. saved his army. His blend of HQ with Dark Blade/Power Wpn and Aspiring with PF trashed my poor Berzerkers. After round 6 of a 2k game, I had a LC/HB Pred in full working order, and 2 Termies left. He had a 6 man squad with a HB and a Rhino.
Off topic - on the plus side, my Khorne Termies charged a Landraider and a Rhino simultaneously, hitting the Rhino's rear with 3 Furious Charged Claws (13 attacks), and the LR with 2 Furious Charged Chain Fists (8 attacks). Neither of his vehicles had moved! The Landraider exploded and scratched the paint work on my Termies armour.... naughty Landraider. The Rhino ended up as metallic dust swirling in the breeze.