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Autocannon Turrent w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons
TL Lascannon Turret w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Autocannon Turrent w/ Lascannon Sponsons
TL Lascannon Turret w/ Lascannon Sponsons
So, my last poll sparked some great conversation that helped me a ton, so I figured I'd ask the forum another question that's been on my mind for a while: What kind of Predator do you all use/find most effective? Here's how I see the arguments:
AutoBolters: Lots of anti-infantry, great if you know what you're up against (Carapace Armor) of if you just need some inexpensive firepower.
LasBolters: You still get two dice on the Lascannon (i.e. you re-roll if you miss, obviously only one of the dice can hit) and can move 6'' and fire everything.
AutoCannons: (man that combination of guns doesn't work at all: for those confused this is Autocannon Turret w/ Lascanon Sponsons) Both of the Lascannon dice can hit, and the Autocannon can pack some heat against smaller vehicles/almost everything. 5 points cheaper than above but you lose the mobility.
LasCannons: (aka Lascannons in every slot) Much more expensive but you also can pack some serious firepower, either on the move or not.
This poll is under the assumption that:
- You would ever field a Predator. If you wouldn't either humor me with your best guess, or go away.
- You have enough points left over in your list for the desired defensive upgrades (Mutated Hull, Dæmonic Possesion, etc.)
That is all.
Back from the dead to haunt new houses.
Send me a hello if you remember me.
I personally feel that the autocannon/lascannon predator is almost completely useless (in comparison to the other builds). I have NO idead why everyone says its so amazing. Ok, it might be sorta cost-efficient, but I've used it and seen it been used and it's usually absolutely worthless on the battlefield. If it moves AT ALL than it can only fire ONE weapon. At least on the all lascannon pred that ONE weapon can be twin-linked.
I once played a game that pit my all lascannon pred with daemonic possession against TWO autocannon/lascannon pred's each with mutated hull, and My predator destroyed both of his while only losing a single lascannon on it. Doesn't seem so point efficient to me now.
It was a close vote for me, but autocannon/bolter pred just barely beat out all lascannon pred for me.
Also it might be good to note that for the same price as an all las pred, you can upgrade your auto/bolter pred to have a combi bolter and havok launcher, giving you a serious anti-infantry platform (ALL weapons are DEFENSIVE too!!!)
My 40K Armies:
- Thousand Sons
- Mordian Imperial Guard
- Dark Eldar
My Fantasy Armies:
- Lhamian Vampire Counts
Secondly, most players compare the auto/las to the las/h.bolter and for good reasons. They both serve primarily as tank busters and secondly as troop killers. However, here are the reason I prefer the auto/las over the las/h. bolter
1- it's cheaper (not by much, but it's something to consider)
2- even with a weapon destroyed it's still very effective at punching through tanks, unlike the las/h. bolter
3- it's troop killing is only slightly weaker than the las/h.bolter. Also, in my experience, 90%of the time, both pred configuration are firing at vehicles, which means that it's troop killing potential is a secondary purpose.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
That doesn't sound terribly constructive to me.
That's like saying CSMs with bolters are useless because 1.7 million of them can't kill the Nightbringer.
I'm going to be unhelpfull and say, it all depends on the situation.
There are certain armies where they'd benefit from the annihilator pattern with las cannon sponsons.
There are others who need destructor with Heavy Bolters.
I'm with Rabbit for the Destructor Pattern with Las Cannon sponsons. You can use all the maths you want. Field test them. They work.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
TL-LC + LC sponsons is my favourite.
It generally fills a role that is needed greatly (if you take it, it's for anti-tank.. and it's good at its job), and it really shines when it's taken with another one of the same make or in a heavily Mechanised list (lots of Rhinos, Dreads, a DP, other big targets, etc.).
AC + HB sponsons was a close second, but there's more than enough infantry killing power in the form of Bolters + other infantry weapons, IMO.
Right now, the Autocannon/Las is probably the most cost effective and versatile of the platforms. The TLLC/Las follows a close second, if you happen to have the extra 20 points laying around.
The AC/HB platform serves a different role, but can fill it well. It's cheap, mobile, and destroys hordes of infantry. The TLLC/HB platform doesn't fit well into the Chaos army, since it's too generalized to fill any one role well. No matter what you're shooting at, you're wasting points. Loyalists can get away with it, since they're built for generalization. Chaos plays differently, though.
Now, I emphasized the 'right now' for a reason. It's about the point where people should be planning for the eventual change of Chaos. Soon, Lascannons will become extremely expensive for Predators, while the AC/HB variant will become even cheaper. That might influence your vote.
Another thing to consider is if the rumours are to be believed, Daemonic Possession will lower the BS of the vehicle to 3. With that in mind, the TLLC is going to gain a bit in popularity, even though it'll be more expensive of an upgrade.
My Opinion After some More Consideration:
The greater purpose of this for me is in part to decide if I should buy a second Predator, and, if I do, which guns I should give it, because I like to play World Eaters, but they're not very good without their tanky counterparts at least in my experience. Right now my opinions stand thus:
Autocannon/Bolters: Great for anti-infantry, easily the best for this purpose of the four, however not useful for me as I need anti-tank.
TL Lascannon/Bolters: Not so great. After re-reading Weapon Destroyed rules and listening to the Rabbit I've been convinced this kit is not worth it. The current 0 votes is has doesn't help either :heh heh:
This ends me in my current quandry of whether or not to go with Full Annihilator or with the Autocannon. i'd like to try to organize my thoughts here but I don't think it's going to turn out too well:
- I don't think 20 extra points is too much to pay for the TL Lascannon. From that twenty points I see (other than the points themselves) two advantages and one disadvantage. You gain a large increase in anti-tank ability, which is probably he more convincing reason for me (as the Rabbit said, anti-infantry should be secondary, and unfortunately we don't get Target Locks) and you also gain an additional attractive weapon to detonate via Weapon Destroyed results, making your other two Lascannons last longer. Accepting those 20 points, the other disadvantage to the bigger turret is that it makes the Predator a higher priority, which may lead to an earlier destruction, although I also think taking worse units because good units might blow up leaves you with an ineffective army.
- For my main purposes (World Eaters/Death Guard) I think I'll need at least one Full Annihilator for the extra anti tank. This clearly depends on which army I face, but I there are three obvious combinations of these tanks. I believe one TL LC turret and one AC turret might work rather well if I place both in sight of a heavily armored target. The enemy would probably spend the better amount of her/his fire eliminating the larger Pred, leaving the AC. The problem with this logic is that it assumes the enemy can only destroy/make otherwise ineffective on take per turn, in which case two TL LC turrets would be better. This second setup, however, at least begins to highlight the extra cost of the TL LC. Which leaves me with two AC turrets.
Temporary Conclusion: This rides completely on the fact that I continue to proxy side weapons or at least choose between DG and Khorne, but I think two AC turrets would work better with DG and two TL LC turrets would work better with World Eaters. I also feel that for Undivided purposes where I will probably have a squad of havocs as well, either a single fully decked out Pred or two AC turrets would be nice to keep total Heavy Support costs low (depending on point limits, list layout, etc.)
Quotes 'n' Stuff:
Man, I missed Caluin. Well, here we go again:
Finally, and most importantly, I was so confused by you two switching avatars. At least you didn't switch names. :shifty:
Last edited by honorableSimon; April 26th, 2007 at 21:02. Reason: Caluin.... :grumble grumble: :D
Back from the dead to haunt new houses.
Send me a hello if you remember me.
Personaly I like two options the best. The tri las and the tl las heavy bolter. The tri las has a very dedicated roll as anti tank. Generaly you sit, spin, and shoot through fire lanes, but if forced to move, you can get off a TL las shot which is nothing to sneeze at. Add to that d. possession and you're either dead, or dangerous, there is no inbetween. The second style I like is the TL las, heavy bolter, with that style you're constantly moving and shooting, and the loss of one shot from the autocannon is made up for by the las being stronger, Twin linked and having a better AP value. I don't like the autocannon heavy bolter because it gains very little if anything over the TL las in terms of utility, but can't damage AV 14 making it non aplicable to some situations. I dislike autocannon las sponsons because you're not as good at move and shoot as HB sponsons, and not as good at anti tank as tri las. Any time you put on las sponsons you lose the ability to stay mobile, as effectivly as even the tri las, and you're not putting out the firepower to be anti infantry. IMHO the tri las and the TL las heavy bolter are the most effective/efficient versions of the pred. Add on D. possession for continued pain, personaly I ignore mutated hull, it won't protect you against side shots very well, and it is ignored by a few abilities, ie dark/bright lances and anything with 2d6 will generaly make the extra point of armor null. Better to take possession and ignore a good 25% of the possable glance/pen results (1+2 on glance, 1 on pen).
My vote went for AutoBolters, but not of logical reasons.
My current projekt is Khorne, and i use Dreads instead of Preds for tankhunting simply because of the Dreads fluff is so much Khorne mentality, therefore ignoring efficiency.
If i would decide to use my unassembled Predator it would instead be to take care of masses of infantry, going for AutoBlters and maybe Havoclauncher/Combibolter (thnx for that one).
So for me its a matter of flavour, if i would ever want to switch to Preds for tankhunting i think i would go all out on Lascannons, just to be sure to have a online Lascannon for as long as possible, plus be able to move and fire it from the start.
"And that, my liege, is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped"
my vote must go to the TL las turret+las sponsons just cause of my way of play, i play EC and making heavy use of blastmasters i'm short on low AP weapons, las fire give me that extra punch against termies and high armoured veicules
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