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I looked through the new Dark Angels codex (I dont have the old ones) and had some thoughts on jow Cypher could be Lion El' Jonson.
1) Luther says that the Lion is coming back, and it later says that Cypher is heading towards Terra.
2) The Lion Blade
3) He still wears UNspiked up power armor bearing the chapters colors.
4) He was taken with theFall of Caliban, the Lion was also there.
Please post your opinions on my reasoning or your own thoughts on the subject.
Cypher isent Johnson. First of all Cypher was Luthers second in command. Since you dont have the old dexs Luther was Johnsons second in command and is now one of the fallen. E/'Johnson was wisked away by chaos and was mortally wounded when this happened it is much like the space wolves and russ. When the final battle between Chaos and the Emperor The lion will be there and so will cypher with the lion blade and the dark angels will forever be forgiven and the blade will be reformed yadayada.
There are many theories on this topic, its fairly unlikely cypher is Lion El johnson. However, some make the case that he might the warp bound reincarnation of Johnson. I don't tend to believe that so much.
I think the Lion is in the rock, being slowly healed, as many of the primarchs are hinted at being, in this case, by the watchers in the dark.
Cypher is headed to earth, but its unclear why, but its probably one of these reasons:
A) He bitterly hates the DAs, and seeks there destruction, with the sword, he can prove them traitors. I find this less then spectacular.
If Horus sits upon the throne of the emperor, then cypher might be heading to earth to revive him, or kill him, probably involving the reforging of the sword.
C) If the Emperor sits on the throne, then perhaps if he reforges the sword, it will someone wake the Lion, or the emperor.
The old rulebook "Angels of death" speaks of Lion El'Jonson lying sleeping within the rock - watched over by the small creatures called watchers in the dark. Here he rests until he will be needed again, blablabla, dark prophesy blabla, etc...
I don't think he is, simply for the fact that if was a primarch, he would be larger thanyour average marine. in game terms, his stats woiuld propbaly be godlike, yadda yadda yadda.
so, based on size, i don't think it's possible for him to el'Johnson
"Like frenzied beasts, they was. But I tell you, there was never a sweeter sound than the howls of the Wulfen that night."
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Well, considering that Cypher is Dark Angels Most Wanted number 1, it would be surprising if he in fact was the Lion. Moreover, in Angels of Death, it is stated that Cypher was Luther's second-in-command, so it couldn't be the case.
Also, considering the Grand Master is privy to *all* of the Chapter's secrets, Cypher's "true" identity would be the biggest secret they would have to keep, not Luther's <......> (I'M NOT SPOLING GO READ !). Imagine if the Inquisition got wind of their chapter's founder being a traitor... hmmm? Hereticus and Malleus anyone?
What do Khorne Berzerkers say to Necrons after chopping some of their bits off? "BLOOD FOR... Eh? Come on! You just take the fun out of it... Scream! Yell! Awww... not even a trace of guts..." *sniffles and kicks dirt*
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Forged, what's this rumor about horus being on the Golden Throne? I've never heard that conspiracy before....feel like elaborating for someone out of the loop?
If you win games against Nids with flamers (aside from the Inferno Cannon on a Hellhound), you're playing against opponents with stupidity of impressive magnitude.
Horus sitting on the Golden Throne is one of those conspiracy rumors that pops up every now and again, but basicaly runs thus:
After the final battle between the Emperor and Horus, the surviving Imperial forces discovered the twisted and burned bodies of the mighty warriors on the bridge of Horus' Battle Barge. They grabbed the one they thought was the Emperor and headed back to Earth claiming victory.
Unfortunately they got it wrong.
However, various pieces of fluff seem to directly contravene this (ie: the Emperor giving out his final instructions to Dorn before he is placed into the Throne), and Horus' body was taken back into the Eye of Terror and held by the Black Legion until an alliance of various other Traitor Legions took it and cloned it, thus destroying and symbolic meaning it had once held for them.
At the end of the day, even if it is Horus on the throne then it doesn't really matter, as he seems to be acting for the 'good' of mankind via his (presumabley new-found) psychic abilities (such as manifestations of angels, the saints etc etc) to such an extent that you can't really tell the difference between him and the Emperor.
As for Cypher being the Lion, I think it is highly unlikely for many of the reasons above.
Finally, shouldn't this be over in the fluff forums?
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I don't think Cypher will ever reach Terra, just like none of the primarchs will ever heal
GW wouldn't do it as it would make marines too powerful (another great crusade anybody?).
Even though, if they did I wouldn't see Cypher being El'Johnson as has been said, El'Johnson's in the rock in a similar state to Gulliman.
[Table 1-1 Signature]
Roll a D6:
2 (Historical Quote)
3 (Hobby-Specific Quote)
4 (WLD record: Relevant Game [Ref: Table 1-2])
5 (Personal Insight Quote)
6 (Critical Sig: roll 2 more times and apply the results, rerolling any further 6's)
Cypher is one of three things:
1. Lion El'Jonson, seeking redemption for his Legion's betrayal (highly unlikely, since Jonson was...well, a frickin' Primarch. Cypher is small by Space Marine standards, since he can evidently blend in amongst regular people. The Lion was at least eight feet tall. That kind of guy can't do covert.)
2. Luther, seeking redemption for his Legion's betrayal (more likely than Jonson, because Luther was evidently not even a "full" Space Marine - which begs the question of how he stood up to Jonson for more than five seconds - but still iffy because Gav wrote info to the contrary. But he's Gav. With Gav, the answer is always yes.)
3. A random Dark Angel, seeking redemption for his Legion's betrayal.
His eventual aim is to get to Terra, to do one of three things:
1. Awake the Emperor (who may or may not be Horus and may or may not be evil).
2. Kill the Emperor (who may or may not be Horus and blah blah blah.)
3. Lay the Lion Sword at the feet of the Golden Throne and ask for absolution, probably before killing himself.
Out of both selections I prefer the option 3's. Luther is apparently (according to that novel Gav wrote) chained up in the Rock, and that's the other Big Secret the Dark Angels have been hiding. It's also implied that the surviving Dark Angels are actually the traitors, and the retreating Fallen are actually the loyalists who lost the Battle of Caliban, which is the other other Big Secret.
I like the idea of just a random Dark Angel, a sergeant or a captain, who sided with Luther and got out of Caliban with the Sword before its destruction, endowed with a supreme responsibility - to get into the most securely defended place in the universe and ask for something as simple as forgiveness for a terrible mistake. Somehow, the idea of a mortally wounded El'Jonson pushing the sword into the hands of the first Marine he saw regardless of whether they were traitor or loyalist - they wore the same armour - and telling him to take it to the Emperor is, in many ways, a whole lot more awesome than "The emperor's actually Horus and Sanguinius was really a bad guy and Cypher is going to destroy the Golden Throne, create the Star Child and save teh universes!"
If GW ever does an End of Days scenario (never going to happen) where multiple plot threads and storylines are finally tied together and unified (never going to happen) and the nature of the game setting is drastically and forever changed (never going to happen) then all your questions will be answered. But unfortunately, that's never going to happen.
So eat and be merry, because we're all ignorant of Cypher's origins, even the guys at GW who don't know what they're going to do with the bastard!
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