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My WH buddy has a hard time winning, mostly because he always plays my high toughness Necrons and a tough Chaos army, where his T3 units and (expensive) characters suffer. He's got legitimate beefs about the fact that Celestine, a freakin' angel, is T3, and so forth, but my real question on his behalf concerns Exorcists. I always hear that three Exorcists are "cheesy," and can't for the life of me figure out why. They're his only tank choice without using allies and many other armies can bring three tanks without causing offense. Realistically, they're only going to hit on two missiles a turn and their S8 makes damaging vehicles a challenge. In effect, they could go a whole game without doing as much damage as a single ordnance template. Bring two, and they're both dead by turn 3. Our Chaos friend brings a Defiler, Vindicator, and Lascannon/Heavy Bolter Predator. Two big template weapons and a twin-linked lascannon, plus possibly six HB attacks. He'll also bring vicious characters and Raptors with two meltaguns. The only way the WH is going to beat that list is with three Exs to take on those tanks and put the fear of the Emperor into those characters. He hasn't tried 3 Exorcists against me, yet, but if he did I'd have to make some hard choices about what to gauss, and my Monolith wouldn't be nearly so comfortable. Seems like good planning to me.
What do you think about those three Exorcists?
I don't find it cheesy
I think people call it cheese when someone stuffs 3 exorcists in say a 1000pt game
Yeah, I think QSD has hit the nail on the head. There is no problems with 3 Exo's, it's veryveryvery common. Only when you are squeezing in 3 for 1K lists, it's kinda fishy.
Honestly, if I threw 3 Basilisks into a 1K Guard list, same result. Or 9x Obliterators. Or 3x Vindicators.
Things like spamming Tau Plasma/Missle suits against a Marine army. You can deal with it, but wow, not exactly fun.
Not that it isn't possible to deal with these things (Warhammer is paper/scissors/rock when lists are unbalanced), but taking 5 Ordnance templates in 1K shows you have little faith in enjoying a game of Warhammer
LO RULESOriginally Posted by Jaffar_Hasad
If it is legal per Codex I have no problem with it. The only problem that I see is when people start using FW pieces without permission... Which we have no problem with as there are no real FW pieces for us
Besides, as stated above, Exos are nice, when THEY want to be nice. If you start rolling 1s, 2s and 3s for number of shots, there isn't a lot you can do with those S8 missiles... Even if, against armor, our S8 AP1 shot works exactly as the S9 Lasscannon, due to the "glance-into-pen" rule...
Last edited by SmokWawelski; September 11th, 2007 at 13:31.
Erm, when you consider the overwhelming presence of fast moving skimmers, S9AP2 becomes way more attractive than S8AP1. Even just on regular AV14.. How is Pen on 6 the same as Glance on 5 Pen on 6?
I'm normally up against Eldar / Dark Angels / Blood Angels / Tau, and have restrained myself in the past from taking the third exorcist. This thread has helped overcome this, and my next list is hopefully going to be a little more hard hitting.
Considering what the Chaos player uses it would hardly be called cheese. The only reason I can think of it being called cheese would be that your friend now actually stands on equal grounds when it comes to ranged firepower.
I personally wouldn't say 3 Exorcists in 1000pts is cheese, more boring to play in terms of army configurations, but as stated before, they have a relatively random performace and they arn't particularly that good against standard infantry.
As for your comment on beating the Chaos army. St. Celestian will need a bodygaurd of Seraphim to keep her alive, but even so her abilities arn't that amazing, she's just very hard to kill. However the combination of her and the Seraphim will improve the units chances of killing a squad using flamers and "Diving Guidance" in addition to the extra omph in combat to finish off the remainder.
It also sounds like your friend gets caught out in terms of speed. With ranged weapons like a Defiler, Vindicator and Predator to keep the basic sisters bogged down it's relatively easy for the chaos player to get his beefy characters and speedy raptors into combat if your friend doesn't move. I recommend you add some more mobility in the form of transports or Seraphim or add some counter combat units like Arco-Flaggellants. Beefy Character or not, if your friend gets off a round of rapid fire with "Divine Guidance it'll hurt, and should he be lucky enough to knock out a Chaos Lords Retinue, an Exorcist can prove to be useful in instant killing the lord, if not the Arco-flaggellants will be enough to kill off the lone lord when released, if not equal him at least, but I'll place my bets on the Arcos overpowering him.
Also consider using Callidus Assasin, she may not be too good alone, but her ability to pop up anywhere on the board can give the unexpected and much need support to win combat or assist in a shooting for some part of the battlefield, not to mention beat the Raptors at their own game. An orbital bombardment too can prove to be unexpected, placed either in a spot where you think the chaos player may deploy one of his heavy support choices or down a path where the Chaos Lord or Raptors may go down. They're quite cheap and worth spending on if there is spare points.
Nothin wrong with 3 exo's my motto an exorcist is good 2 exo's are great, and 3 exo's well thats kickass. And honestly I would drop the saint and get a Canoness with Blessed wep, cloak of st. aspira, mantle of ophelia, and jump pack. She is about 70 pts cheaper and can handle her own in CC also you can use spirit of the martyr to give her a invuln save when needed. You can give her other equipment such as melta bombs or litanies of faith as needed.
This should work as I had a Chaos friend who had nasty CC units khorne bezerkers and tooled out lord anyway. I brought her and and she by herself owned everything that rushed my sisters by turn 3 he called the game. Of course she has her limits blood thirster of course and he eventually just brought a deamon prince designed specifically to kill her. Also the Callidus assassin should work well against MEQ forces she can do a bunch of dmg with her c'tan phase blade, and if you place her cleverly she can butcher entire squads of CSM. This clever place would be a doorway or something where they would come at her 1 by 1.
Also a squad of 5 seraphim should do wonders against armor give them melta bombs and you can use spirit of the martyr here also to make sure they get to thier destination.
Cheese is not in my vocabulary.
Play against any army enough times, and you'll find all the cracks.
Necrons are a tough opponent for WH.
I take allied GKs. Callie is nice to have as well.
Take all the weird stuff that you never use.
But I once had a great time when I used 1 inducted IG squad + 1 mortar in a cityfight building with the fortifications strategem. He wasted about a quarter of his firepower on 70 points worth of garbage. He killed only about 3 of those guardsmen, who just kept saving. Heh. I won 2 buildings to zip. Celestine was in that game, and she did just fine, as I recall.
She used Scarabs to skip across the board.
Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70