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  1. #1
    LO's Resident Time Lord Canew's Avatar
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    Mech vs. grenadiers

    Hi:

    So I put up a mech list a while ago (first time posting in IG forums, I thinik), and didn't want to have grenadiers in it for fluff reasons, but recently I've warmed to the idea. Still, though, I like the idea, from a modeling perspective, of having the custom troops I have in mind rolling across the battlefield.

    So basically, I'm looking to compare grenadiers to armoured fists to "vanilla" troops in chimerae in a mech list, and looking for some conventional wisdom to plan my list (which I can't really begin putting into action for a while, but hey, no harm in being prepared).

    To those who use all-grenadiers: are "ordinary" mounted infantry platoons that bad?

    To those who use non-grenadier mech/armoured fists: With all the crowing about grenadiers, what advantages do the stormtrooper junkies keep overlooking?

    To those who have both: Do you have trouble making it work?

    Thanks in advance to the tread-heads out there.

    Last edited by Canew; September 12th, 2007 at 19:29.
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  3. #2
    Senior Member Steel_Legianaire's Avatar
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    The reason to use Grenadiers rather than standard infantry is thier ability to get that extra special weapons, better armour save, and better balistic skill. The standard infantry are great because its a HW with a bunch of wounds and some small arms fire incase things get too close for comfort.

    Why take a heavy weapon if you are going to be moving around, so you are better off with another special weapon and more staying power that grenadiers/stormies offer.

    With points being the only exceptions, I don't really see any advantages to running standard guardsmen as opposed to grenadiers, because the grenadiers just outperform the standard guardsman so much so that it is worth the extra points.

    Good Luck.
    Battlesuits, putting the BS in BullS*%t.

  4. #3
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    I play Grenadiers in a mobile list mostly because of what Steel Legionare said; two special weapons, better BS, better armour save and a power weapon on the Vet Sgt.

    I will ramble here a bit so excuse me...........

    The idea behind a mobile unit is to be able for it to do significant damage to the enemy when you get there. The idea of rushing one squad of regular Guardsman up in a Chimera with a flamer or Grenade Launcher isn't scary to anyone. A squad of 10 Grenadiers with two Plasma Guns is a bit different indeed, unleashing rapid fire death to the enemies of the Emperor!:C

    The strength of regular IG squad in the Heavy and Special weapon together. You can't move and shoot a Heavy Weapon, so leave those squads in as good cover as you can.

    The Armour save is also important with the vehicle damage rules. You can have less than half of your IG squad left if the enemy pops the Chimera.

    Grenadiers doctrine also means you don't have to take regular IG squads for a troop choice. This gives you a Mechanized army without taking a Mechanized doctrine.

    Grenadiers go really well with Veterans Doctrine for a BS4 Guard army!8Y

    I don't mind the Mechanized doctrine, but I keep the squads out of Chimeras in cover (with a Lascannon and Plasma Gun) and use the Chimeras for the excellent light tanks they are with Multilaser, Heavy Bolter and Heavy Stubber.

    Cheers, DH
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  5. #4
    LO's Resident Time Lord Canew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer View Post
    The idea behind a mobile unit is to be able for it to do significant damage to the enemy when you get there. The idea of rushing one squad of regular Guardsman up in a Chimera with a flamer or Grenade Launcher isn't scary to anyone. A squad of 10 Grenadiers with two Plasma Guns is a bit different indeed, unleashing rapid fire death to the enemies of the Emperor!:C

    The strength of regular IG squad in the Heavy and Special weapon together. You can't move and shoot a Heavy Weapon, so leave those squads in as good cover as you can.

    The Armour save is also important with the vehicle damage rules. You can have less than half of your IG squad left if the enemy pops the Chimera.

    Grenadiers doctrine also means you don't have to take regular IG squads for a troop choice. This gives you a Mechanized army without taking a Mechanized doctrine.

    Grenadiers go really well with Veterans Doctrine for a BS4 Guard army!8Y

    I don't mind the Mechanized doctrine, but I keep the squads out of Chimeras in cover (with a Lascannon and Plasma Gun) and use the Chimeras for the excellent light tanks they are with Multilaser, Heavy Bolter and Heavy Stubber.

    Cheers, DH
    I have trouble ditching the "regulars" in favor of grenadiers, partly for fluff and modeling reasons, despite the sense it might make. In an all-grenadier army, what do you do for an HQ? Is it mobile?
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Steel_Legianaire's Avatar
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    Your HQ can be mobile w/ lots of plasma or melta, or you can DS them in with the same loadout.

    As far as modeling, I am making stormies/grenadiers by taking a cadian, putting a SM backback on them after I cut off the little bulbs, then put a piece of plastic rod between the backpack and where the clip would go in the lasgun. Tada a stormie.

    Now the only thing holding you back is fluff, which is where I can't help, because only you know what you are aiming for there.
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  7. #6
    LO's Resident Time Lord Canew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel_Legianaire View Post
    Your HQ can be mobile w/ lots of plasma or melta, or you can DS them in with the same loadout.

    As far as modeling, I am making stormies/grenadiers by taking a cadian, putting a SM backback on them after I cut off the little bulbs, then put a piece of plastic rod between the backpack and where the clip would go in the lasgun. Tada a stormie.

    Now the only thing holding you back is fluff, which is where I can't help, because only you know what you are aiming for there.
    No, I have a plan for making plastic stormtroopers. Trouble is, this is a desert army, a la the Tallarn (but it's a custom regiment), and I had a plan for "regulars" looking like the Tallarn, my stormtroopers, a cluster of Cadians for the command HQ, and the heavy weapons teams being customized to look like the Forge World Tallarn HW teams. The overall effect was that the regiment moved in wearing Cadian uniforms, but have gradually "gone native" and adapted to the weather.

    Now, though, I think I can use the "regular" Tallarn-looking models for vets, and possibly HQ retinue. Hmm...
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  8. #7
    Senior Member Steel_Legianaire's Avatar
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    sounds like some good conversion work, should look nice when you are done.
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  9. #8
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    Yeah, it's gonna be phase three of a MASSIVE project I'm about to get started on, so it's a while down the road, but I'm planning now. I think i will be using greenstuffed Catachans to look like Tallarn for the vets and possibly the HQ retinue, then I will somehow model Catachans (or Cadians) to resemble the HW teams from Forge World (can't be THAT hard to make!) to man HWs in the vet squads, and maybe even serve as officers, etc. My stormtrooper conversion will represent grenadiers (got a first attempt on that in the works), and I will eventually get the FW Tallarn tank commander bust to serve as my commander. All I'll need are some legs...
    Mickey: "You're just making this up as you go along!"
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    Check out my WIP thread here (Clicky!)

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  10. #9
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    Grenadiers all the way. That way I don't have to take a chimera for my heavy weapons support squads, but I can by default buy Chimeras for veterans and HQ squads as they are. Grenadiers + Veterans over Mechanized any day. :drinking:
    What do you call a lasgun with a laser sight?

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