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I am currently thinking of takeing the hardened fighters doctrine. I am planning on takeing it for many reasons one being fluff. The fluff reason is my army is elite siege defence so i think that it would make sense for them to be good at useing their hands. I also take camoline and close order dreal and iron discplin.
The other side of the reason for me wanting to take this is most of the armies i play against get in assault turn 2 and i just dont have enough time to wittle them down. Sense most of the guys i play agains take marines or their equivilants that have WS 4 i think that would help slow the process of my men getting slaughtered and possible keep units tied up long enough so that i can get in more shots with them before they get assaulted.
Thanks Mr. Grim
Oh and i play more for theme then i do to win though my army does do pretty well.
The most dangerous men in the world are the ones who have nothing to lose.
That's what conscripts are for. If you want a tarpit, I suggest trying them out. Otherwise for platoon units it's generally better to run away so you can place the enemy in your gunsights again.The other side of the reason for me wanting to take this is most of the armies i play against get in assault turn 2 and i just dont have enough time to wittle them down. Sense most of the guys i play agains take marines or their equivilants that have WS 4 i think that would help slow the process of my men getting slaughtered and possible keep units tied up long enough so that i can get in more shots with them before they get assaulted.
As for fluff, well if you like then take it. However do keep in mind it's really not going to do much for you army other than being a pointsink.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
If it fits in with your fluff and you really want it, go for it.
However, I would suggest it's by an absolute country mile the worst doctrine available for the Imperial Guard. It costs loads, and if you start applying it across the board, it takes up so many points you could have used for other units/upgrades.
I have to agree - WS4 does you next to no good when you are still low toughness and with a pretty awful save. Plus if you are forking out for Cameleoline you want to avoid assault as much has possible as it will be useless - carapace armour would be better in that case (call it 'siege armour' if you like).
I prefer Sharpshooters as it assists with the wittling process - though I only take it for my heavy weapons teams most of the time.
Fluffwise, close order drill is much better (as it costs nothing)? Just beware of blast markers!
I used to use it and it can be handy if you're playing army that is similar tactics. But like as has already been said the guards low toughness and that particular doctrins high point cost makes it a waste. when I revamped my army I droped it and was able to pick up quite a bit in its place. Assault is just not what the guard is good at. That said:
By far the 50 man conscript squad is the best assault squad the guard has, but I hate conscripts...
I've seen H. Flam sentinels used as a way to hold up approach enemy squads while units relocate. they're cheap so you don't have to feel bad about throwing them away, but it only works for a turn or two if you're lucky.
I do use the hardened fighters doctrine. However, I am selective about which squads I give the bonus to. I give hardened fighters to my command squads to give them a bit of a melee bonus and the WS 5 hidden power fist commissar is pretty effective. I also give hardened fighters to my heavy flamer sentinels. This works great combined with the drop troops doctrine since I am able to get in close with the sentinels. So I say take the doctrine it has its uses but limit how many points you are going to spend on it.
What do you call a lasgun with a laser sight?
Like everyone else said though, if you're doing it or the fluff that is aweseome, but Hardened Fighters isn't really worth it across the board, and even if you're picking and choosing a few special units to give it to, you could still find a better usage for those points. Close Order drill will at least allow you to strike at the same time your SM opponents will (except in a few cases), and it's free. The point is, it's not a guardsman's WS that makes them good in close combat, its having 50 of them pile in to overwhelm your opponents.
Last edited by SimulatedSnowman; September 20th, 2007 at 23:26.
I think you need to spend more time on your floor.
2500 Black Templars