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  1. #1
    Member FUGIT1VE's Avatar
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    Iron Halo placement?

    if i customize my emperors champion to have an iron halo is that cool or...??? in the codex it states he cant have any other upgrades so he cant actually have the bonus but would it be a problem if he had it on???


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    Senior Member SimulatedSnowman's Avatar
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    Probably not in a friendly game, unless your friends are crazy sticklers for the what you see is what you get stuff. If you were playing in a Tournament, the WYSIWYG stuff is taken pretty seriously.
    I think you need to spend more time on your floor.

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    I bring PANDEMONIUM! Zephyr_the_AzureWind's Avatar
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    I'll disagree here on the WYSISWYG of the iron halo. Rules-wise and equipment wise he doesn't get a halo. However I wouldn't refuse to fight one with an iron halo modeled onto the armor since it is usually much more ornate than standard power armor. Or else anyone who liked converting anything at all would be irked by this. My custom power weapons would.

    (that giant spear counts as 2x lightning claws, that giant energy mace counts as a powerfist...etc)

    as long as you don't have one rules-wise, only the most stuck-up people would refuse to play with a model that just has a few extra bits for visual appeal.
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    Has a monkey! Imperialis_Dominatus's Avatar
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    I much agree. The halo frankly looks cool, and I'd not begrudge you using it on your model. You could always magnetize it for scum who wouldn't let you play with it... but that's a small magnet. Maybe pin it in and give him a different back trophy/banner for tournies?:drinking:

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    Painting Machine! Tekore's Avatar
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    I only WYSIWYG for the big stuff, like weapons. If you want to make his armor more ornate with the Halo, go for it.

    Tekore

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    ....coookies... GDMNW's Avatar
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    A tale of two rules

    There are two rules at stake here. The first is "WYSIWYG". This is really important as most tactical decisions are made based upon the enemy equipment deployed against you. The second rule is "Counts As" This is where a player may explain that one item 'counts as' something else. All that is required is absolute clarity for your opponent.

    To look at your example then, if you have a commander with an Iron Halo and a champion with an Iron Halo and one is decorative and the other grants an invulnerable save then you are essentially cheating by confusing the issue of who has an invulnerable save and who does not.

    If all of the models with Iron halos were merely decorative and you explained that the winged helm 'counts as' an Iron Halo and the halos 'count as' decoration then there is no confusion and you would be able to use the force in a tournament.

    This 'counts as' rule allows people to field undead orcs and goblins and other tournament loveliness which would not be possible without it.



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    Painting Machine! Tekore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarahemna View Post
    There are two rules at stake here. The first is "WYSIWYG". This is really important as most tactical decisions are made based upon the enemy equipment deployed against you. The second rule is "Counts As" This is where a player may explain that one item 'counts as' something else. All that is required is absolute clarity for your opponent.

    To look at your example then, if you have a commander with an Iron Halo and a champion with an Iron Halo and one is decorative and the other grants an invulnerable save then you are essentially cheating by confusing the issue of who has an invulnerable save and who does not.

    If all of the models with Iron halos were merely decorative and you explained that the winged helm 'counts as' an Iron Halo and the halos 'count as' decoration then there is no confusion and you would be able to use the force in a tournament.

    This 'counts as' rule allows people to field undead orcs and goblins and other tournament loveliness which would not be possible without it.
    Nice post, rep for you.

    Tekore

  9. #8
    Member FUGIT1VE's Avatar
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    ...but the Emperor's Champion can not actualy be equiped with one...as he does not have access to the armory...does that make a difference?
    Last edited by FUGIT1VE; October 19th, 2007 at 17:28.
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    WYSIWYG is one of those rules that needs further expalanation, but wouldn't benefit from any...if that makes sense.

    The purist (reductio ad abusrdium time) WYSIWYGers believe that the model should accurately and /completely/ represent what its supposed to be. IE: If the Emperor's champion doesn't get an iron halo, then he should never, ever be modelled with anything even resembling one since it would be "confusing." Additionally, his black sword should always be a sword, he should always be painted in black templar colors, the official Emperor's Champion model is the only model that should ever be used, and if possible he should have a shoulder piece clearly indicating which vow he represents.

    The moderate WYSIWYGer believes that its ok, because as you said, they never have one, and so its just extra bling on the model, but would prefer to not make use of the 'iron halo' bit specifically so as to avoid confusing, perhaps instead using something similar from St. Celestine (which also one imagines represents her invulnerable save, and is halo like, but isn't strictly an 'iron halo' by appearance.)

    The radical (raat) WYSIWYGer believes the model should look neat. IE: He not only thinks its ok to put an iron halo on the Emperor's Champion, but maybe deck him out in something resembling terminator armor, while holding a kitbashed nemesis force weapon and a glowing combi-melta in his other hand.

    I fall into the category I describe as moderate above. I don't see a problem with it, but I'd try avoiding the use of bits that have 'specific' meanings to someone who spots them. Similarly, I wouldn't be keen on a howling banshee exarch with swooping hawk wings, even though I -know- she's not going to be flying.

  11. #10
    Illustrator Extraordinair Adrian MalSeraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUGIT1VE View Post
    ...but the Emperor's Champion can not actualy be equiped with one...as he is does not have access to the armory...that make a difference?
    The Champion doesn't have access to the armoury, thus isn't equipped with one. But he gets the same save from his blessed armour as an Iron Halo, so modelling one shouldn't make a difference.

    This is true. But some people like to make impressive and ornate models to really add a visual interest to their table top army. Usually this means that the decoration has absolutely no effect on gameplay. Its just there.

    Most people don't usually mind if there is a little extra decoration, but sometimes you get people who won't allow it. You should consult with your opponent about the issue.

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