In Praise of the Psycannon - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    In Praise of the Psycannon

    This has been somewhat of a paradigm shift for me with my Grey Knights.:C

    I have alway played my 'Knights with no options, just Vanilla. After all who would want to pay double your troop cost for a Heavy Weapon that still doesn't have a great AP...... and you lose the Nemesis force weapon and True Grit while you are already toting around Stormbolters, the best standard issue gun in the game? I took 10 man squads for a 'wall of lead' anti-troop approach.

    For some time now I have been testing 8 man squads with two Psycannons each, both for my PAGKs and my FAGKs. I am liking these squads a LOT, and have changed my standard lists to encorporate them permanently for tournements.

    here is why................

    Psycannons ARE expensive, but they do a lot. Adding Psycannons to your squads make them much more flexible. All of the sudden your squads are good Transport/light tank killers, as well as excellent troop killers. Too many times with my 'Nilla Knights I could not shoot at a anything because all that I could see was enemy vehicles. These squads have roughly the same amount of anti-troop killing power, but now are more flexible. The downside is you lose some of your 'meat' and CC power. The 8 man squads still have enough 'meat' for a shooty squad, and the Grey Knights are good in CC, but certainly not as good as most dedicated enemy assault units.

    I definatly play these squads shooty and keep them back and in cover from the start. I use them to kill transports first, then focus on the enemy troops. I move these squads later in the game if I need to. Even the FAGKs start on the board....who wants to waste firepower for a turn or two!
    The other benefit is that I get a few Shrouding rolls per game that acutally work!;o

    I hope this information is usefull and adds to our 'collective' data to make our beloved 'Knights more effective at slaying the enemies of the Emperor!!

    Cheers, DH

    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

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  3. #2
    Insert Witty Comment Here Goblin's Avatar
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    Yah, definatly worth noting the worth of the psycannon in PAGK and FAGK.

    Good post man, it actually kinda makes me want to get some PAGK psycannon models now! hehe

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    I allways use psicannons (they are our own special weapons!!!). Psicannons are great against several targets. Ofcourse it cannot destroy a land raider, but can banish an entire unit of bikes, or dig wholes in chimeras.

    I think that psicannons work specially well in my army because it is a very shoot one, and I field 6 psicannons in my 1500 list.

    Im going to try this setup next game I play:

    1 Brother Captain GKT with no retinue with psicannon.
    1 elite GKT squad, 1 psicannon on the retinue and another in the squad leader who is also armed with a thunderhammer.
    Total cost: 356 points.
    It looks really good in CC and shooting. - Please, use a spellchecker in the future. - Katie Drake
    Last edited by Katie Drake; November 13th, 2007 at 04:08.

  5. #4
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    I also put Psycannons wherever I can , so on BC's and 1 in the Squad. My GM has one, as does my Inq/Lord and Elite Inq - he's in Term/Armour so goes it alone.
    I have one shooty GK Squad with 2 Psycannons in it, and sometimes I go all out and use a 4Psy. Purgation Squad. They are great Infantry Killers.
    if I was any good at handling Resin one of my Dreads would have a Psycannon as well.
    Fluff-wise they are the ultimate weapon, well next to the NFW.
    A long time ago I'm sure I seen something on here from Lost Nemesis talking about his Purgation Squad, but I can't find it anymore - it was a great read!

  6. #5
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    I thought I would do some Mathhammer to back up some claims of the Psycannon effectivness.

    Taking down Transports: Assuming all hits are glancing (smoke or Skimmers).

    Chance of 2 Psycannons taking down (immobilized or destroyed):
    AV12 : 22.2%
    AV11 : 44.4%
    AV10 : 66.6%

    Killing Troops:


    Kills per 2 Psycannon round of shooting VS 2 Heavy Bolters:
    MEQ (Marine): Psycannon: 1.11 }{ Heavy Bolter: .888
    Genestealer: Psycannon: 3.33 }{ Heavy Bolter: 2.667

    Cheers, DH
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  7. #6
    Insert Witty Comment Here Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monopeludo View Post
    psicannons
    Lulz!! I don't think i have ever seen psycannons spelt cuter in my life!

    Kinda made me giggle too, and shudder a bit everytime I read psicannon... heh.

    Kills per 2 Psycannon round of shooting VS 2 Heavy Bolters:
    MEQ (Marine): Psycannon: 1.11 }{ Heavy Bolter: .888
    Genestealer: Psycannon: 3.33 }{ Heavy Bolter: 2.667
    Diggums, i agree 100% on your logic behind the tank thing.

    However, it is most certainly obvious that the psycannon would kill ALL infantry better then the heavy bolter. Being as such that it is +X strength in comparison to the heavy bolter.

    But i do not think that it is a very comparible scenario when comparing points cost, if i am not mistaken, you can almost buy 2 heavy bolters (this is taking into account cost of marines + cost of weapons) in an SM army as you can buy psycannons in a DH army on the basic troops / heavy troops (purg squads and w/e SM squads are called)

    thus,
    More accurate price comparison to outline your theories,
    Kills per 2 Psycannon round of shooting vs 4 Heavy bolters: (as 2 gk with 2 psycannons would be just about as much as 4 SMs with 4 heavy bolters)
    .888 x 2 = 1.776 MEQ killed, and
    2.667 x 2 = 5.334 MEQ killed

    Thus
    Kills per 2 Psycannon round of shooting VS 4 Heavy Bolters:
    MEQ (Marine): Psycannon: 1.11 }{ Heavy Bolter: 1.776
    Genestealer: Psycannon: 3.33 }{ Heavy Bolter: 5.334

    I know it seems wacky to compair, but for some reason, i thought it was more accurate comparing prices and whatnot, as well as mathammer, to make it more, game-listic!

    Silly yah, but i think you understand my point, obviously the psycannon is better then the heavy bolter (For hecks sake, it is like almost 3times more expensive then the heavy bolter! If it wasn't better, I wouldn't be playing DH!)

  8. #7
    The Orange Grey Knight MiketehFox's Avatar
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    *points*

    HERETIC! HEATHEN!

    *runs*

    Edit so Mod don't bring out the Banhammers...

    Have you considered how effective 2 SB PAGKs are in comparison to your Psycannon PAGK? I dunno, I guess I just like seeing my ba-jilllion OGKs running around.

    Lurker Mike
    Last edited by MiketehFox; November 14th, 2007 at 16:03.

  9. #8
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin View Post
    LBut i do not think that it is a very comparible scenario when comparing points cost, if i am not mistaken, you can almost buy 2 heavy bolters (this is taking into account cost of marines + cost of weapons) in an SM army as you can buy psycannons in a DH army on the basic troops / heavy troops (purg squads and w/e SM squads are called)
    Goblin you are absolutley correct. I was just trying to indicate that Psycannons ARE effective against vehicles and troops.

    You also have to add in the other things that make our 'Knights more effective than regular Marines, especially with regards to a shooty army, Shrouding, Agis, Fearless, as well as our stock Storm Bolters!
    0:
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  10. #9
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    If we are doing math hammer I think the comparison to make is 2 psycannons against 4 storm bolters. Same cost, and it is a choice that you can make as opposed to one that is imaginary (can't take 2 heavybolters unless you use inquisitors or are marines anyways)

    2 psycannons
    Marines--1.111
    Stealers--3.333
    Guardsmen/firewarrior--3.33

    4 stormbolters
    Marines--.088888
    Stealers--2.66666 (non EC)--1.3333 (with EC)
    Guardsmen--3.555555 (firewarrior-1.7777)

    I am against taking psycannons, but point for point, as long as they can fire they are nice to have against almost any troop. I just think it is more effective to put them with smaller squads (and terminators/inquisitors) so that you dont waste your other stormbolter shots at av 11+, or don't have to choose between stormbolters and move or psycannon and stay still (when you are currently 29-25 inches away)

  11. #10
    Insert Witty Comment Here Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nichodemus10 View Post
    If we are doing math hammer I think the comparison to make is 2 psycannons against 4 storm bolters. Same cost, and it is a choice that you can make as opposed to one that is imaginary (can't take 2 heavybolters unless you use inquisitors or are marines anyways)
    The idea was to compare two heavy weapons of similar type.

    It is almost completly obvious that a psycannon would be better then two stormbolters. At least in my mind, regardless of mathhammer.

    You cannot compare guns that are not a like in pretty much every way.

    We were not saying that GK could get heavy bolters, just that they are similar weapons.

    Also, i pointed out, that for 2 greyknights with a psycannon each, you can get 4 SM, with a HB each.

    I understand where you are going with this. And i agree that psycannons on PAGK are not always the best thing... but to me, loosing a strX attack that im paying a lot of points for, is not always worth it.

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