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So, more for fun and because I'm bored then anything else:
Has anyone else noticed that the current Grey Knight color scheme is eerily similar to the pre-heresy color scheme of the Luna wolves? I've been looking at the cover of Horus Rising and it's not a big stretch to see Grey knights instead of Luna Wolves, just change the shoulderpads a bit, and some flashy parts and you're done.
Admittedly I'm still working through Horus Rising, and as the series goes on I'll probably see stuff that will make me realize precisely how stupid this theory is, but still...
What if part of the 666 trials that the Grey Knights undergo to be initiated is reliving the moment when the Luna Wolves overtly turn to chaos? They pick wrong, and they die. Pick the Emperor, even with all their battle brothers turning traitor around them, and they continue on the path to becoming Grey Knights.
Likewise, what if the first batch of Grey Knights were the few loyal Luna Wolves, perhaps even helping the Emperor in the defense of Terra. After the great battle with Horus, the Emperor's last command to these soldiers is to never turn, and to hunt down and destroy their chaotic bretheren. Perhaps the Emperor bestowed a portion of his psychic ability on these ultimately loyal soldiers, explaining their psychic might.
Chances of this being right are about ten gajillion to one, but if it is it creates some interesting implications for the Grey Knights. After all, that makes their primarch Horus instead of the Emperor. It would also explain their undying loyalty, as the group was founded by Marines who wouldn't turn against the Emperor, even when commanded by their primarch.
Like I said above: Unlikely at best, and more for fun then anything, but what do you guys think?
mabey they started the grey knights in honor of loken
read more of the horus novels and you might have a better idea on where/how the grey knights come to be.
Interesting take although do read the other novels (6th one is out I believe - Descent of Angels) and you'll find that it's just not a few marines from the Luna Wolves that will feel uneasy about changes being wrought on their respective Legions.
Somehow though, with the Imperium always willing to purge an entire chapter of marines even with the slightest hint of taint, I doubt they'll want to use geneseeds from anyone on that chapter.
Excellent point, but also remember that this is the pre-golden throne imperium. If the Emperor were to secretly take the still loyal Luna Wolves and form a new chapter with them, I dont think anyone would really be able to contradict him. It would have to be his last act (or first on the golden throne) for it to work, but still...Somehow though, with the Imperium always willing to purge an entire chapter of marines even with the slightest hint of taint, I doubt they'll want to use geneseeds from anyone on that chapter.
Working through the books now, so I'll get a better idea as I go along.
Well, the Grey Knights were actually founded by the Inquisition a little way after the Emperor was incapacitated.
Since the Emperor is the only one with the kind of authority to get Marines who have turned Traitor saved from being executed as...Traitors, and he was kinda comatose at the time of the Grey Knight's founding, this is all quite strictly out.
Plus, it's kinda stupid. I mean, the Grey Knights are supposed to be the super-duper incorruptible ultra soldiers to fight the Great Enemy, who can corrupt anything. Why pick Marines created from the genetic material of the greatest traitor in Imperial history and psychologically predisposed to act like him? Surely, being the big supported of eugenics that the Imperium is, you'd pick Marines from the Imperial Fists or something.
Besides, there's no evidence for Luna Wolves being any "better" than the average Marine except that they were led by Horus. They haven't got special psychic powers and they certainly aren't immune to corruption, which are the two things that make Grey Knights better than the average Marine.
I mean, come on.
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Mr_Wayne: "Some people believe that the World Eaters do not field any ranged weaponry. Those people often die at a distance."
I'd like to address this, if I may:The paragraph continues to describe the Emperor, and not the Inquisition, creating the Grey Knights. In fact it mentions that the Ordo Malleus is in its infancy, being recently created itself.From the Daemonhunters Codex, Page 6: Legend tells that it was around the time of the second founding that the Emperor ordered the creation of this secret chapter of the Space Marines.
As for incorruptibility, I would think that Luna Wolves who sided with the Emperor, even against the Primarch that they love as a father, would have proven themselves more incorruptible then the loyalist legions, particularly the Imperial Fist, who spent less time fighting chaos during the Heresy then anyone else because they were organizing the defences on Terra for a fair chunk of the fighting. The major leanings on eugenics seem to have come into play post-heresy.
And the only thing that makes the Grey Knights superior to other Marines is their equipment and their psychic presence. Put a grey knight into close combat and he dies just as fast (or slowly) as any other marine. The only pre-heresy marines that showed psychic leanings (If my memory serves) were the Word Bearers and the Thousand Sons, both traitors. So either way the psychic powers were put in after the fact. Which means loyalist Luna Wolves would be as good of choices as anyone else.
As for the Emperor being completely incapacitated, I had always been under the impression that the Emperor was actually able to communicate for a short period after the heresy, allowing him to do some last minute restructuring of the Imperium. Can't recall where I read it, so unfortunately I don't have anything to back that particular nugget up with.
Is it a perfect theory with thousands of cannon references to back it up? Not even close. Is it even likely? No, probably not. Is it "stupid"? That label seems a little unnecessary to me.
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Ah, guess that settles it then. I haven't read that far into the horus herasy series yet (jsut finished Horus Rising) but if all the loyalists get killed on Istvaan III then there really aren't any left to become Grey Knights.
Ah well, it was a fun thought while it lasted. Thanks for the specific reference Darkreever.
Thus, no matter how super-duper incorruptible they are, they are still somewhat (no matter how slightly) able to be corrupted in one form or another. I know this is just a sub chapter... and is not really related to the convo, but i figured i would mention it....
And the Exorcist chapter IS recognized by GW... Thus having possessed Grey Knights seems viable... like the posession wasnt able to be reversed, and all hell broke loose or something... im not sure how they do the posession for 13 days... but sounds like it could evolve into a really cool story line if... something went wrong