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Sorry I truly did not mean to disobey forum rules. Will definitely not post GW codex stuff anymore. Thanks for all the tips though guys.
Last edited by Rainbowlightning; December 2nd, 2007 at 03:38.
I first want to point out that posting the point costs of individual pieces of wargear or the effect of specific special rules is prohibited by the rules of the forum.
Apart from that, I can't say I agree with the whole mentality of the argument but then again, I dislike having to sacrifice models for the express purpose of getting rid of others. I understand that you are having trouble against Monstrous Creatures hiding behind cover, but surely that means your heavy weapons are not placed well enough? Maybe the terrain doesn't work in your favour? If you can't see the Carnifex on the first turn, why not place your heavy weapons so that you can shoot if it ever comes out from behind cover? Just dare it to come out and try and take a shot at you - even a Carnifex can't really stand up to numerous Tactical Squads equipped with heavy weapons in a straight up firefight. Then you can have your Assault Marines with Flamers take out any oncoming Genestealers, taking special care to avoid charging too close to the Carnifex so that he can't pop out, gain an extra few inches in movement, and then be protected from your Lascannons by virtue of the fact that he's in combat. It may seem controversial, but there are times when it would be better to have fast-moving troops shoot at oncoming Genestealers and receive the significantly weakened charge rather than attack them first and fall into a well-placed trap.
Otherwise, I would recommend supporting your attack with Land Speeder Tornados; their Assault Cannons and Heavy Bolters are invaluable against both Genestealers and the aforementioned Carnifex, with the possibility of delivering rending hits. If you force the Carnifex to hide, then it has already wasted its time and so you can easily concentrate on the oncoming Genestealers and butcher them at your leisure, provided that you don't stray too close to the Tyranid battle line.
Obviously the winged Hive Tyrant is a bit harder to deal with but then again, here's where a large Assault Squad or numerous Tactical Squads (heck, even Scouts if you like) come in handy. The Jump Pack Chaplain is a very popular one for precisely this reason - he can apply his Litanies of Hate to the entire squad, thus giving you 6 bonus power weapon attacks on the charge and innumerable normal Assault Marine attacks, assuming you don't get hit too bad by the initial strike from the Tyrant. The real point of the Assault Marine attack, though is to ensure that the Veteran Sergeant with a Power Fist survives long enough to deliver his attacks, which have virtually the same probability to hit and wound as your Thunder Hammer Chaplain. With both the Chaplain and the Veteran Sergeant having power weapons, it's not a stretch to kill that Tyrant on the first turn. Not only that, but assuming that you are facing a tooled-up Close Combat Tyrant, the most models you can lose in that single turn is 5, thus bringing a 9-man Assault Squad + Chaplain down to half strength. Now, it still counts as a scoring unit and you have saved 50 points over the Thunder Hammer Chaplain in terms of sacrificed models. Not much, of course, but every little bit helps.
Obviously a lot of Chaplain tactics assume that you will get the charge but that's just the nature of GW games. The charge is a very important thing to get.
If you don't like the Jump Pack Chaplain with his Assault Squad, that's fair enough, I'm just saying that there's a reason why people use him so much. A little bit of time, preparation, and careful deployment can really put a dent in any sort of shock assault by a unit that is supposed to be able to kill entire armies. If you can pop off a few shots at it with heavy weapons to remove some wounds, so much the better.
Thanks for that post NiteRabbit, definitely appreciate it. I will certainly take what you said into account about using the whole squad to benefit. I guess using just the chaplain to hunt down the tyrant is kind of not the space marine mentality.
I am truly sorry for going against the rules of the forum, I will try to keep away from doing that in the future.
My favorite alternative to Jump Pack Chaplains for the rare occasions I decide to leave home w/o him.
All he needs is a terminator squad with 2 assault cannons either deepstriking or riding in on a LRC.
feed the MC a cheap squad to hold them up then unleash hell with terminators by either softening up the MC after it massacres the squad or charge straight in while the cheap squad acts as bait.
Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x
You can't say "The Hive Tyrant has a WS of X with X attacks on the charge at initiative X." Because if I added all of them together, I could get the stat line and points cost of a Hive Tyrant without having to buy Games Workshop's copyrighted codex. And that really pisses Games Workshop off.
Now, on the subject: a far more efficient and safe method is to give every Veteran Sergeant in the army a power fist. Here's how it works. Your HQ is an Independent Character, with a naturally high Initiative that lets him strike first in most situations. Giving him a weapon that forces him to strike last, such as a power fist or thunder hammer, is a waste of his very very valuable Initiative. Additionally, because he is an Independent Character, he can be singled out in an assault even if attached to a squad, and your opponent can focus attacks on him. If your Chaplain doesn't strike first, he could quite easily get killed before he gets to do anything.
Now. Veteran Sergeants, on the other hand, normally have a standard Initiative, so you lose nothing by giving them a power fist. They are cheaper, but most importantly, they aren't Independent Characters. They can't be singled out in an assault, and wounds have to be allocated normally; this allows you to keep them as literally the last man standing, increasing the chances that your power fist will get to hit.
Power fists can be distributed throughout all your squads for a nominal cost. The Hive Tyrant, presumably, is going to assault you. This means you practically just have to wait for the Tyrant to get into CC then have your sergeant smack it with the big hand of smackiness. Instead of risking your extremely valuable Chaplain against a Monstrous Creature.
There is one situation where I've used a thunder hammer to good effect, and that was against an all-genestealer army with a Broodlord. I took a thunder hammer and the crozius, and alternated between them, using the crozius for low-I Tyranid units, and when we got into close combat with the Genestealers (whose Broodlord had a higher Initiative than my Chaplain anyway) I would switch to using a thunder hammer, so as to negate their high Toughness at essentially no loss because I'd be striking after them anyway. In this manner, Mr. Broodlord Look-at-my-high-Toughness-score was completely splattered after inflicting two wounds.
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