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I'm a newbie in WH40k and tabletop gaming overall and currently I try to collect Imperial Guard. I've read quite a few articles on "how to begin" and I bought Rulebook, Codex and Cadian Battleforce box (x1) already. While currently I'm bussy with painting Cadian troopers and haven't even started Heavy Weapons and Leman Russ yet, I already started thinking about what my playable IG army could look like. After reading How to purchase your Guard army (How to purchase your Guard army. (for those who don't know what to buy)) and some other articles from different sites, I came up with an approximate list of about 800 pts. I did try to do everything according to the rules from Codex but I cannot be sure if I made everything correct and legal so I'm sorry if something is fundamentally wrong here
Besides, chances are I will face Tyranids (and, maybe, Space Marines) of equal pts (~750) most of the time. WH40K gaming community is small here and people tend to continue with one of two races they found in Battle for Maccrage starter.
So, here is my list. Is it any competetive? (Or is it legal at the first place?) Any suggestions, etc? Also I listed point costs as I understood them. I hope I didn't make any mistakes here as well.
Junior Officer (+ power sword, + Honorifica Imperialis)
Commissar (+ power sword)
Guardsmen with Grenade Launchers x 3
Total: 157 pts
Troops 1 (Infantry Platoon)
Junior Officer (+ power sword)
Commissar (+ power fist)
Guardsmen with Flamers x 3
total 188 pts
Infantry Squad ( x2 )
Sergeant (laspistol, sword)
Guardsmen x 9 (Grenade launcher and Heavy Bolter, one per squad each)
Troops 1 Total 344 pts
Troops 2 (Armoured fist)
Chimera (Multilaser Turret, Heavy Bolter Hull, +Extra Armor )
Guardsmen x 9 (+ plasmagun)
Troops 2 Total 160 pts
Leman Russ (Heavy Bolter)
Total Army: 157 (HQ) + 279 (Troops1) + 160 (Troops2) + 145 (Heavy Support) = 741 pts
I chose Heavy Bolters, Grenade Launchers and Flamers with Tyranids in mind, as well as Troops1 command squad for counter assault. HQ is for fire support and morale. Maybe my reasoning is funny for those of you with real gaming experience but well it's still better than choosing your list completely randomly And Leman Russ is here for the only reason that I already own it from Cadian Battleforce box.
Apart from said Cadians I already have one Commissar (no Power Fist yet). I'm still to buy the rest.
Thank you in advance for your patience reading all this and for your suggestions, advices and criticism
Last edited by Sejanus; January 5th, 2008 at 14:47.
Welcome to the guard!
first thing get rid of all points costs except for the overall unit, this is in the forum rules somewhere i'd edit them out of your post pretty sharpish before a mod happens.
Righty, you are aiming to take on tyranids and marines with this list.I shall assume the marine army is just a basic kind but please do say if it is built more for close combat or long range.
These armies are quite different in play style, the tyranids wanting to come up close and personal (usually) and the marines being a good mix (usually). This does make choosing your list a little awkward, lets see...
Firstly things that are illegal:
1. The priest, to take a priest in the platoon command you need to have one in your main command squad unfortunately. this means either moving him there or getting rid of him completely.
Pretty normal setup, however, the weapons setup isnt great. Now as you are fighting armies that you want to stay away from taking grenade launchers in your main command isnt a great idea. especially the amount you have taken! The best idea would be to drop all of these and get either a mortar or ive found a single plasmagun can work ok aswell if you have the points. The mortar would work well against gaunts whereas the plasma would help more if the marine player wants to get up close. As you are using this squad as a leadership base it might be an idea to give them the mortar and hide them out of the way somewhere.
Now your platoon command is possibly the worst bit of your list unfortunately. Platoon commands should be simple affairs IMO. either an LD boost, a heavy weapon unit or a counter attack unit. Now you have gone for the counterattack unit but too many points have been spent. As the games are going to be small amounts of points to start off with super squads like this become an even larger liability. Firstly look at its points, a full 33 over your main command. SO, take out the following:
priest (he is illegal so needs to go)
this strips the squad back down to bare bones now choose either the flamers OR the commisar, if you decide on the comisar go for a power sword and a single flamer at first. as I said in these small points it is difficult to make an acceptable counterattack squad, two flamers woudl be better than one but if you dont have the points then dont worry. I would suggest just going for the three flamer setup and only adding in the commisar at a later date to up the points to 1000 or 1500.
The squads seem ok, they are a nice standard setup which shoul;d be effective against the nids and to a certain extent against the marines. if you can find the extra points giving these squads plasma would make them a lot better against marines.
The Af squad seems not to bad. I would recommend giving this squad a missile launcher aswell. The added firepower will defiantely help, i will also mean a slight change i your tactics. When facing tyranids I found moving an armoured fis squad around is a bad idea, set them up somewhere and use the chimera as mobile support sort of like a light tank. I even ofund placing them in terrain can be effective at reducing hits, this does mean they wont really be able to move anywhere all battle though. Saying this smokes are still fairly essential on the chimera.
The Russ seems a little bit bare to me. Add in some sponsons at least. If you lose your main cannon it means you can still cause damage rather than being down to a single heavy bolter!
I had noticed you hadnt taken any doctrines, I would suggest taking iron discipline and possibly COD aswell. The COD is free so that isnt really a problem, the iron discipline on your officers would create an extremely strong LD network with what you have got.
points saved from taking out the second commisar and priest, aswell as the grenade launchers in the main command leave you 149 points. The comand squad commisar does not really need a power sword but you could leave it in there. this points reduction takes you down to 657 points leaving you 93 to play with.
Firstly take a mortar in the main command. Then get sponsons on the russ, aswell as smoke for the chimera. A missile launcher for the AF squad would round out your force to 695 points. This leave you 55 spare. so take iron discipline on both officers also upgrade the two platoon squads to plasma thatd leave 41 points to spend. now extra armour on the russ, a few bolt poistols amongst the officers, a vet sarge for the af (with say a strombolter) a heavy stubber on the chimera aswell. and oyu could bring yourself p to 750 points.
If you stripped your force down a little further you could probably squeeze in another squad or maybe some vets but ill leave it there for now.
hope that helps
Thank you for your replySorry. I couldn't even dream that revealing costs is copyright violation removed them and also removed Priest and adjusted costs accordingly. Now for the rest I'm going to read Codex again to find the meaning of some of the terms you used or to find what exactly what weapon does so I will adress it later. Just few things for now:first thing get rid of all points costs except for the overall unit, this is in the forum rules somewhere i'd edit them out of your post pretty sharpish before a mod happens.Sadly I have no idea. I doubt somebody would build marines for close combat here... I'd guess it will be basic kind. What I know for sure that I will definitely see at least one dreadnought if that matters. And chances are at least one marine army will be built for ranged combat exclusively from what I know about their player's styleRighty, you are aiming to take on tyranids and marines with this list.I shall assume the marine army is just a basic kind but please do say if it is built more for close combat or long range.Do you mean grenade launchers require too small distance to be used effectivelly against tyranids and avoiding close combat? And considering replacing them with Plasma Guns, shouldn't I take medics along with them? From what I've read I thought medics go with plasmas as a standard setNow as you are fighting armies that you want to stay away from taking grenade launchers in your main command isnt a great idea. especially the amount you have taken!I think I will follow this. I will not need to buy-assemble-paint another commissar then anywayI would suggest just going for the three flamer setup and only adding in the commisar at a later date to up the points to 1000 or 1500.
And also since I do have some spare points now, I've noticed guardsmen may take frag grenades for reasonable point cost. Are they worth it? Grenades seem to be a good idea against numbers too, or are they not?
So, I will edit my list according to your suggestions a little bit later (and will post any questions that might arise if you dont mind) And yes, that was really helpful.8Y
Last edited by Sejanus; January 5th, 2008 at 15:09.
First of, welcome to the guard! Always good to see someone joining up.
Second, I have a slightly different opinion with a few things.
For your main HQ, I agree with Commisarlestat that 3 grenade launchers is probably not a good idea, especially since this is your leadership squad and you want them to stay far away. Of course this doesn't mean they can't lay down some fire of their own. A mortar is a good option if you want them to really stay out of combat. I personally am of the opinion that mortars get more effective the more you have. Having one mortar is probably not going to have much of an impact on your games. Other options to think about here are a heavy bolter or a missile launcher/autocannon. Heavy bolters are an easy choice in any IG army. It's tough to have too many. Missile launchers or autocannons have a little bit of debate attached to them. You probably won't be running into a lot of heavy armor at this points level, so an autocannon could provide a little bit of long range punch against tougher infantry or light armor (such as the Dreadnought you know you'll be facing).
Using your Platoon HQ as a counter-charge unit is a solid idea. However, flamers are a difficult weapon to use in an infantry squad, and especially difficult against Tyranids. The long assault distance and fleet of claw moves generally means that against 'Nids, you're going to be receiving the charge as opposed to dishing it out. I think that grenade launchers are still a good option here, and if you want just a lot of close combat attacks you could always give a few of them laspistols and CCW for no charge. The Commisar with the power fist is probably not needed here either, but if you do take him, take him with a power sword/axe/whatever, as Commisarlestat said.
Remember that the bonuses conferred by having frag grenades only occur when you charge. You might consider this for your counter-charge unit and possibly your Armored Fist squad. However you want your line squads to always be putting fire on the enemy, and that means standing still and letting the enemy come to you.
Also, you definitely want heavy bolter sponsons on your Leman Russ. One big ordinance shot or 9 heavy bolter shots. Best setup ever.
But yeah. Again, welcome to the guard and keep us informed on your progress!
I think you need to spend more time on your floor.
2500 Black Templars
im not a wery experienced gamer so i might be wrong, but i dont think grenades are the best thing to waste your points on. charging the nids isnt a good idea and id rather shoot the space marines too.
Thank you for your suggestions and welcomming
Now, I replaced 3 grenade launchers in my HQ with mortar (crew 2) and a plasma pistol in a case somebody comes close. This means I plan them to stay out of combat somewhere behind the good cover. And it also means one Guard effectivelly does nothing (the one with Plasma). Is this OK or is this a kind of waste?
Considering Leman, I added sponsons with heavy bolters. I was also thinking about sponsons with Flamers in a case those numbers of tyranids get close, but I suppose bolters are better choice here ("Best setup ever")?
And I still haven't decided anything for the rest part. E.g. I thought platoon command squad would make a good counter charge unit when they had priest with that psychotic two handed chainsaw + rerolls and commissar with power fist. Now I forgot the advisors rule so priest is out, and if commissar is also out and flamers are ineffective – do I still have anything who could really counter charge tyranids? Say, Genestealers? Also, genestealers approaching through a nice clean battlefield are pretty good for mortar, heavy bolters and guardsmen in general. But can't they deep strike e.g. right next to the HQ in one way or another?
As for the mortars in numbers, if my guardsmen are to stand in place and shoot I could provide them mortars. Like, two more (for the Infantry Platoon's infantry squads)?
Last edited by Sejanus; January 5th, 2008 at 17:08.
Your current list doesn't really have much room for counter charge units. I would possibly consider bumping this up to 1000 and adding some conscripts or rough riders with lances?
Also I would think about swapping the armored fist squad for another platoon w/ plasma/lascannon squads, or just add a lascannon to the squad and use the chimera primarily for fire support rather than transport. This gives you a bit more anti-armor and low AP weapons which are ideal for tyranid hive tyrants or carnifexes and marines in general.
There is no such thing as a plea for innocence in my court. A plea for innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty.
- Inquisitor Lord Fyodor Karamazov
OK, so since the main purpose of my questions was to decide what I should buy (and what I shouldn't)...
I can assume I should buy Armoured Fist box. It will be usefull now in one way or another, and it will be usefull in the future (1500+ pts. games).
Considering officers, probably I should buy two boxes of Cadian Imperial Guard HQ Command (6 models each). Though I really need only 2 colonels and 1 standard bearer, that leaves me with 9 excess models. Maybe they will be useful in the future? Or maybe there's a better way to buy just what I need now?
I have got a Commissar so this part is OK. Though it was sold to me as a HQ choice at the time I knew nothing about WH40K rules.
Now I have got 3 heavy weapons teams (or more, according to Commissarlestat's article) in Cadian Battleforce. Can they be used as a part of infantry squad (as per "two guardsmen may form a single heavy weapon crew" - Codex)? Or do I need "real" guardsmen + separate model of heavy weapon to form it? If they can act as a part of a squad, I believe I woun't need any more guardsmen for now. Or maybe just few.
+ Leman Russ and I have a 750 pts army in one configuration or another.
Again, thank you people for your help. I really appreciate it
you don't really need to buy command boxes , you problay could just convert some officers out of a box of troops and some spare bits
also did you check out this (How to purchase your Guard army. (for those who don't know what to buy)) thread it could give you some ideas on how to stretch all the parts you got out. never mind that, I should take more time read the full post .....
Last edited by Sarissa; January 9th, 2008 at 20:30.
Yes, one heavy weapon team per platoon infantry squad. And yes you have many more than three heavy weapons in there. The easiest thing to consider here is that a model does not need to kneel down to either have a missile launcher or be a loader.Originally Posted by sejanus
The name refers to facial hair, not playing style.Originally Posted by A news vendor's stand, London, June 1940