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I usually always use an HQ that has a PW weilding JO w/Honorific, a PW weilding Commisar, 3 meltas, and a Standard bearer. I lose my HQ every game (usually due to Close Combat)with them doing little damage to anything.
A friend of mine gave me some old metal Space Marine Scout models with bolt pistols and CCW (which are the same size as the Karskin Stormtroopers). I am thinking of taking out the Meltas, upgrading them all to Vets with bolt pistols and CCWs, then giving the whole squad Carapace for the +4 save AND sticking thier butts in a Chimera. I am hoping to increase thier survivablilty against Close Combat, plus the models really make the squad stand out and look impressive.
Oh... and as for those Meltas. My Infantry Command squad usually takes 4 flamers, but now will have 2 flamers and 2 meltas.
Colonel Brennen Ironfist
Imperial Guard Commander
2 issues with that plan
1 If you want carapace for that squad then you need to buy it for the army, and that dosnt seem a good choice if you only realy want it for the command squad.
2 If your just looking for a show piece, then have at it. But I never put too much faith in guard combat ablititys, and I think your kinda working in the wrong direction.
By my count that squad is 220 pts PLUS the chimera. In gaurd terms that is a platoon with decent gear. Which do you think is going to kill more, or take more hits or even win more fights ? With a heavy bolter you could tear that squad pretty quickly. 25 guardsmen are going to take a signifigant bit more. They also can have 4 special weapons and 3 heavy weapons, for that cost. Combat you might do better in BUT for 220 points I can beat you with any other race (mabey not tau). Say 30 orks with a nob. Whos gona win ?
Granted a Chimera Is good choice, but its just as good a choice on an armoured fist squad, or the command of that platoon you could buy. I might be a bit negative to this but tell me that what Im saying is wrong.
Make the enemy play your game not trying to counter theirs.
Last edited by s0m3w0n; January 6th, 2008 at 06:04.
Guard just simply aren't good at combat, stick to the guns and maybe a power weapon here and there to spruce things up a bit usually works the best.But I never put too much faith in guard combat ablititys,This is because it is so bloody expensive and really not all that great at surviving much, carapace is going to help but as said before;I lose my HQ every gameWhich probably isn't worth it. I would recommend dropping the other 2 meltas, maybe the third, probs keep the PW but just learn to be more careful with them, you DONT want them dying early or at all preferably thus just potter them behind some other men willing to die with the support of some good 'ol heavy weapons or a tank or something.1 If you want carapace for that squad then you need to buy it for the army, and that dosnt seem a good choice if you only realy want it for the command squad.
Use the leadership bonus and just use them for counter-assaults, nothing more.
One use for that squad which would proly pay off is to trade that carapce doctrine in for drop troops. Load up on a plasma guns and blow the hell out of things point blank with rapid fire plasma, or failing that point blank melta fire. You probly would be better to do this with a secondary command squad but if you expect them to hit you in combat as opposed to shooting take that squad. No on the scouts because that squad IS going to die, but they will delive enough punch to knock alot down.
Just some food for thought if you want that squad thats probly your best option. Another possible use is as Storm troopers, with suitable equipment. But that many points in a squad with Toughness 3 and at best 4+ saves.
The other poster's are right and you should have the idea by now. But just to reiterate, it is generally a bad idea to gear your squads towards close combat.
What role are you trying to fill with this squad? What is its purpose on the battle field?
Is it a character hunter? Bad idea!
Does it rush forward to get those meltas and power weapons in range? Bad idea!
An expensive short-ranged squad like this is a really juicy target and one round of bolter fire can wipe this squad out well before those meltas are anywhere near max range.
I think that trading out those meltas for close combat weapons will be like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire... its much worse.
Fact: IG are very fragile and suck at close combat. Throwing points and upgrades such as carapace and CCW's at them will not change anything except the points you have available for other things (like guns!).
It's worth a krak!
I use my HQ unit for it's command bubble, re-rolls, and somewhat of a counter-charge unit. I know better than to use them to 'hunt' anything. The main problem is that the guys I play against always go straight after my HQ, no matter where I put them. That's one reason I put them in a Chimera. The Carapace and the CCW weapons are to just keep in the fight longer once they are in CCW.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't need the Carapace doctrine to give my HQ squad all Carapace, I just have to upgrade all the Guardsman in that unit to Veterans so they can take the gear.
Colonel Brennen Ironfist
Imperial Guard Commander
Oh I guess you could do that but then your paying 5 pts a guy. To give them all carapce you could just about buy a new command.
I understand where your comming from, and I had a similar problem. My solution was to buy mortars and hide them where your enemy can't see. No line of sight = no shot. A x point power weapon is realy the only upgrade worth its points. If you want counter charge buy yourself some rough riders, less points, and you definatly deliver more punch.
And if you feel the need to buy a leadership buble get vox comms, alot of guys dont like them but with that given set up (the Honorific imperialis and commisar) you are broadcasting leadership 10 to your entire army.
Giving them CC upgrades is a bit of a waste, it looks nice, but the JO or even the HSO will usually die before he can do anything with whatever weapon he's got due to his horrible Int. Give a powerfist to the commissar for emergencies, but otherwise hide at the back with your Ld Bubble with a mortar!
If I've replied, i've probably used Italics...
www.goodbyeboltgun.blogspot.com - Some of my stuff.
If the purpose of this unit is leadership, then there is no need for any weapon upgrades at all, with the exception of a possible mortar.
For 81 points you can get a JO with Honorifica and Iron Discipline, and a standard barer for all of the leadership that you need. This unit should hide behind cover or the units that he is supplying Ld to.
Frankly, I would bee line it towards an over priced/under powered unit every time too.
If you are worried about losing this squad, make him an HSO and put the Honorifica on a JO from your platoon HQ.
Thats 2 high leadership bubbles at far less cost than trying to keep one unit alive with upgrades.
Oh, and it is much better to protect any IG squad by shooting and killing enemy units before they reach your lines, rather than giving them short ranged weapons for one round for last chance survival.
Its just not a good idea to load them out with expensive short ranged weapons and CCWs especially if they are going to be running away in a transport.
Last edited by Plasma Catcher; January 7th, 2008 at 11:48.
It's worth a krak!
I have to admit that I am a little lost here. Why would you have to use a doctrine to give a command unit Carapace Armour? I work it out that to buy a command squad with close combat weapons, carapace and a JO you are looking at just under 90 points. That doesn't involve using any doctrines at all.
Am I wrong?