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  1. #1
    Superflat Monogram Sayomi Akimoto's Avatar
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    Grey Knights and True Grit

    Before stating anything, this thread is not about whether Grey Knights in Terminator armor get an additional attack for true grit and all that jazz. (I myself don't count GKT as having an additional attack with the storm bolter.)

    Rather, it's more of a balance question.

    Why not let Grey Knights get an additional attack with their True Grit on the charge, why not let Terminators get an additional attack for having a storm bolter?

    In my opinion it wouldn't be making Grey Knights overly powered or anything. Rather, it would reinforce the Grey Knight "We're good at everything" attitude. It would give them the weight that quality just doesn't provide.

    Of course, I could understand if the majority of folks feel that would give Grey Knights TOO much of an edge, a third attack on the charge for PAGK, and four attacks on the charge for GKT (Base+True Girt+Charge). Hmm, 31 PAGK attacks on the charge, scary.... And 41 for GKTs, even worse.... (Full Squads, just to let you know, without any change in equipment.)

    Pretty much to sum it up, does this make GKs on equal footing with the rest of the 40k armies, or just make it too beardy?

    What does the great majority of Daemonhunters players on Librarium Online think?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Lyzaru's Avatar
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    Well as for getting the extra attack for charging even though we have true-grit I think that would be over the top, plus we dont really need it we are already good as far as CC goes I mean MC and walkers really have to fear us in CC unlike most other units and we destory most standard units as well since we hit on 3s / wound on 2s at a decent init for the most part.

    Although were I play we do count the GKT as having true-grit, but we did this before people noticed the loop hole in the errata. We did it just because we didnt think it made since fluff wise. ( I mean it is like o look I got promoted now I can just go ahead and for get this ability that I have used for the last 100 years or so, also cause if anything it should be the other way around GKT get it and PAGK dont since being in termi armor makes for better firing platform )
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  4. #3
    Insert Witty Comment Here Goblin's Avatar
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    Consider the storm bolter shots you get pre-charge..

    So then, that is 41 attacks on the charge (theoretically)...

    Hmmm, i think that is powerful enough. Not to say i wouldnt complain over 51 attacks on the charge (if they had that extra True Grit attack on the charge! heh.

  5. #4
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    I think the reason GKTs don't/shouldn't get true grit is simply because of the TDA itself. Models in TDA are slower to some extent, less mobile. They can't make sweeping advances, for example. It takes special training to use TDA effectively -- different training than that required to employ power armour correctly.

    You'll note that the stat-line for GKs in TDA gives them an extra attack. That's there to represent how much more experience and training those GKs have -- and their mastery over their TDA -- over their power-armoured brethren, who only have one attack in their profile. True Grit with 1 attack is not as good as having two basic attacks, as you then still get an extra attack on the charge.

    True Grit is really a kind of crutch or trade-off for any model (not just GK) who has it. It's not quite as good as just having an extra attack, or quite as good as actually possessing a second one-handed weapon. True Grit is a special, unique skill that gives a warrior an extra melee attack with a weapon that isn't designed to be used in such a way. The upside of True Grit means that the weapon you use it with is typically a superior sidearm. I think we would all agree that the storm bolter is far superior to bolt pistols or standard boltguns.
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  6. #5
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    Im of the opinion that GKT do get True Grit, as somebody pointed out, it doesn't make sense that veteran GK would simply forget this ability. I am also of the opinion take, when comparing the GK terminator suits to normal SM, that the GKs' are much more moblie than their normal brethen and works to accentuate their skill. But on the other hand, should not get an extra attack on the charge as it tips the balance of power to much in their favor. Same goes for PAGK too. I love GK, but i don't want them to be Khorne Bezerkers.

    thats my 2 cents
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  7. #6
    Nightlord frozencore's Avatar
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    Number6, he specifically said this wasn't about GKT and true grit. I am sure it is a standard knee jerk reaction when you see the words "Grey Knight" and "True Grit" in the same sentence, but please read the opening post.

    I have a feeling that the rules for true grit may change in the future edition to make it more comparable to chaos ultra grit and improve it. Just a hunch.

  8. #7
    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sayomi Akimoto View Post
    Why not let Grey Knights get an additional attack with their True Grit on the charge, why not let Terminators get an additional attack for having a storm bolter?
    Well, if we're giving PAGKs an attack on the charge, why not just drop the True Grit special rule entirely and increase their base attacks? It amounts to the same thing, after all. My personal take on it is that it'd be a bit over the top. Like you said, on the charge you're talking 31 high strength attacks, preceded by a whole mess of stormbolter shots. I dunno, it's just my opinion, but that seems a teensy bit excessive =).

    Eh, anyways, there's my two cents.

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    Member Inquisitor_Tolheim's Avatar
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    I'm going to have to say no.

    Giving Grey Knights an extra attack on the charge, in addition to the obscene utility of using storm bolters to begin with, would be way too powerful. With 10 PAGK that's 20 Storm Bolter Shots, followed by 31 attacks. And those attacks are hitting at Strength X (see codex), which is a considerable boost. Do the same thing to terminators, and pretty soon I've got a one unit army.

    We already kick obscene amounts of backside with the all-aroundness of our Grey Knights. They really don't need a boost to make them viable IMHO.

  10. #9
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    I like the True Grit the way it is for PAGKs. It wouldn't fit to give them one more on the charge.

    GKT Terminators should (regardless of current rules or interpretation) IMO get True Grit, and swing three times always. Why should a model that costs over twenty points more get the same amount of attacks, and I agree with SirVire that a GKT would lose this ability as he gets more experience in battle just because he wear Terminator armour.
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    Member Inquisitor_Tolheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer View Post
    GKT Terminators should (regardless of current rules or interpretation) IMO get True Grit, and swing three times always. Why should a model that costs over twenty points more get the same amount of attacks, and I agree with SirVire that a GKT would lose this ability as he gets more experience in battle just because he wear Terminator armour.
    *Tries to resist the urge to beat the dead horse*

    See, and I agree with number6. Training or not, the GKT use armor that is so bulky, so cumbersome, and so powerful that the kind of speed implied by true grit just doesn't apply. They don't move quickly enough to make firing their storm bolters worthwhile in the swirling melee of close combat.

    From a rules-only perspective, keep in mind that the additional 20 points arms the Terminators with TDA, which is awesome by its own right, a nemesis force weapon upgrade that gives them nigh unto a power-fist while still striking at initiative, and the option to deepstrike. That's pretty good value for the points in my book.

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