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I played in large 1750 point Tourney this past weekend (which I was lucky enough to win), but I wanted to get some thoughts out before I forget to add to our collective knowledge.
The good news is out of the 28 players we had a plethora of different armies. 2 IG (mine was Mechanized Grenadiers) , 4 Eldar, 1 Tau, 1 Sisters, 1 Necron, 2 Chaos, 2 'Nids, 2 Orks, Blood Angles, Space Wolves and a couple of Trait Marine Lists. Only Dark Eldar and Deamonhunters were not represted. I sure hope this is the same for future Tournements, I love the diversity. My IG list tied with a 'Nidzilla list for first place and two hoard Ork lists came in the top five with a Space Wolves player.
To me this means that it is less effective for us to tool our lists for MEQ (Marine's or Equivalent) armies specifically. Lascannons are perhaps being made less effective overall and Heavy Bolters made more effective (not that they aren't good at MEQs already).
It becomes more important to take units that will be good at a couple things. You might be fighting a Godzilla list or you might be fighting an Ork hoard. I had two Demolishers in my tourney list, and in the last two games I barely ever fired the Demolisher Cannon. I was almost always shooting my triple Heavy Bolter combo against the Ork hoards. In first game, the Demolisher Cannon was awesome as they took out a very expensive Choas Terminator Lord and retinue, while vaporizing many Chaos Marines.
Just some thoughts..............
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
I agree that tooling a list specifically for Anti-MEQ (or anti-one specific army) is counterproductive, but in all the tourneys I've played in and seen, there isn't quite as much diversity as was in yours. Generally it's a lot of SMs, CSMs, and a smattering of whatever else. I don't necessarily think of it as list tailoring if your all comers list happens to be able to take all kinds of MEQs and be less effective against GEQs. Still, you're lucky to have that kind of wide array of opponents.
I wouldn't really call a Lascannon an anti-MEQ gun. I personally feel like I'm wasting points if I shoot a lascannon at a line squad, even if it is a SM line squad. I think pretty much everyone understands that heavy bolters and multi-lasers are going to be better at anti-MEQ, even if their statline doesn't really scream "I KILL MARINES".
I also agree that taking more generalized units is probably a better way to go, especially for the IG. While many other armies (especially Eldar) can field units that are really good at one specific thing, guardsmen IMO are best when used in a general capacity in higher numbers. Certainly a little specialization is good though. For instance, a lascannon in a 3 line squads is too specialized for guardsmen. If you're shooting at a monolith, you have your one shot, maybe two with a melta shot each and then a multitude of completely useless shots. However if you've got 3 Lascannon sentinels, it's not such a waste. If in your next game you're playing Orks, you can take those sentinels and shoot at a Warboss in his Battlewagon. I believe there is actually a tactica around here somewhere about denying the enemy their anti-whatever by not taking anything (such as making the enemy waste the points on his Lascannon support squads by not taking any tanks at all).
In any case, congratulations on your win. Good input here.
I think you need to spend more time on your floor.
2500 Black Templars
Also, good to hear the Demo was taking charge with the dice, and dumping Ordnance on a Termie Lords face. I like
LO RULESOriginally Posted by Jaffar_Hasad
I don't play an awful lot. Furthermore, most of the games I play are against MEQ armies. However, though I pack a lot of lascannons and plasma, even in the games I play that aren't against MEQ I find I nearly always have a worthwhile target. The only time decent AP high strength weaponry isn't a plus is hordes (other IG, orks and some nids) IG nearly always have armor, orks will have vehicles as well and nids will always have a big bug to chew on.
I usually aim for a ratio of three heavy bolters to per lascannon with a minimum of 3 to 4 lascannons even under a thousand points. On the off chance I play a horde I find that the effectiveness of my template usually takes up the slack of my lascannons.
I don't like tailoring my army to match my opponents so I've always been anti MEQ i find that this hasn't presented a problem for me when I play hordes.
I myself just played in a tournament down here in Melbourne, called Arcanacon. 150 players, I came 23rd which i'm pretty happy with! Especially for my first real tournament (I played in conflict last year, but thats all newbs as well, and only at 750 points).
But yeah, its generally a bad idea to tool your armies against MEQ's. Admittedly, 5 of the 6 armies I played against over the weekend were power armour equivalents: sisters of battle, necrons (no monolith! Arrgh!), 2 chaos marine armies (undivided), and a blood angels army.
This was not the norm however, and there was a MASS of armies than were not powered armour. I'm pretty sure that Orks took 1st and 2nd place, too!
Also, its true - my best performing units were the ones that had the ability to perform several tasks, with my veterans constantly wiping dudes out in the assualt, as well as taking out tanks. Deepstriking, infiltrating or normal deployment for these guys was fantastic - the more options the better.
Even my grenadiers did well in multitasking, like flanking a blood angels advance before taking out a baal predator with their krak grenades. Not usual, that, but it payed off! I like storm troopers for this very reason - they have frag and krak for the 'just in case', they can take special weapons, and you can deep strike or infiltrate them if neccessary. Very useful.
So yeah, Diggums speaks words of wisdom here!
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but in our gaming groom (ranging from 10-25 players) I never face Space Marines - sure there is a deathwing/ravenwing player and a sisters player, but apart from them, I have the only Space Marine army - for something so common it is quite uncommon here. But hey, I guess I'm just lucky.
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon
I never see vanilla marines. I play a bit but when I do the norm always seems to be the special end of whoever you areplaying. Like mechanized IG, traited marines, a specific chapter or version of an army. Does anyone else have this experience?
It has prompted me to build interesting yet essentially vanilla versions of the armies that I play. I have even re-written my lists using the core rules. I find that often this leads to surprises as your opponents just don't expect normal stuff.
As for your point about playing balanced guard I think you are spot on. It is a good idea to focus on volume of fire as an anti-MEQ techinique as volume of fire is effective against nearly all targets.