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So as i'm sure you've all read or discussed the pros and cons of giving Grey Knights a Nemesis Force Weapon and if most of that reading was on LO it was probably resulting in people saying no due to losing a str6 c/c weapon.
Now some one made a point about this the other day which I thought was worth passing on to everyone here.
Example of GK with NFW & S/bolter against MEQ (your general opponent WS4 T4)
Stormbolter hits on 3's wounds on 4's (2hits)
NFW hits on 3's wounds on 2's (2hits)
Example of GK with Psycannon
Psycannon hits on 3's wounds on 2's (3hits)
C/c hits on 3's wounds on 4's (1hit)(+charge bonus)
So you don't get the true grit, but you get charge bonus's and an extra shot. Not only that but it means that you are able to sit back and fire 36"s if need be, taking out small tanks, wounding big critters etc...
Now remember this costs you an extra XXpoints but it would mean your a bit more versitile.
Personally I think its great having NFW/Sbolter but I now also think its a good idea to have a psycannon on them.
Totally agree....that's why I reckon the smart thing to do is to play the percentages and have both. For every 2 NFW/SB vanilla Squads take 1 Squad with 2 Psycannons. My optimal vanilla Squad size is 8, while the Psycannon Squads I keep to 6.
I actually thought that 6-man mini-purgation Squads were quite popular, and I use them often. I always try to keep my FAGK Squads vanilla so they can dish it out in c/c.
i am all for every Gk squad haveing a special weapon, im a big fan of versitility and i think the shots more than make up for the slight drop in attacks.
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1 PAGK with psicannon fires 3 times at vanilla Meqs then charges getting 2 S4 attacks.
Result 0.555 shooting + 0.111 combat. Total 0.667 dead MEQs.
2 PAGK (same points cost as above) Fire 4 storm bolt shots then charge getting 4 S6 attacks.
Result 0.444 Shooting + 0.741 combat. Total 1.186 Dead MEQs.
In addition 2 vanilla PAGKs have 2 wounds rather than just one. Of course the psycannon chap kills more each turn in shooting but not by much. but there are other effects of his weapon that also go in his favour such as ignoring invulnerable saves, extra range and the ability to engage tougher targets and light to medium vehicles.
The difference I suppose comes down to how you will use them but in my oppinion the extra wounds of 2 vanilla PAGKs over 1 with a psicannon tip the balance. When your standard trooper costs 25 points each then you need to keep your model count up anyway you can.
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Mad Cat, when you did that mathhammer for the kill amounts, how did you get .11 for the psycannon grey knight in close combat? A grey knight with psycannon that gets the charging bonus would cause .23 kills not .11. .55 is a rounded amount for the shooting kills (though .57 is a more accurate rounding for .567)
The .11 for combat looked right at first, but when I did the math for two non NFW attacks from a grey knight I came out with .17; I had to reduce the grey knights strength to 3 before the number came to .11.
The kill amount for the psycannon grey knight against another marine or equivalent should really be .79 not .67. (Again, not a very big difference but that is a difference.)
Of course, I also came out with 1.22 for the pair of grey knights without psycannons.
That psycannon amount still isn't the greatest in the world when comparing it to the pair of grey knights, but when you throw in the psycannon's rnage and the fact that an enemy would have to come to that grey knight, the kill amount would start to go up. (That psycannon grey knight won't care if you don't come to him; he can shoot you at 30" as well as he can shoot you at 18". Its the pair of normal grey knights that are going to have to come to you before they start making those kills.)
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Luke, I came to the same conlusion a couple of months ago, see here: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...psycannon.html
I found one big drawback to the Stormbolter only squads was the lack of targets to shoot at some times because of armour or vehicles. Psycannon while not good at taking out enemy AV13 or higher, are great at Transports. I just hated have a 275point squad completely waste its firepower for a turn or two.
For the first few turns keep your Hellfire Dreads shooting at heavier armoured units, while your Psycannons krack transports. After that the Psycannon vs NFW (and more troops) is more valid.
Overall I have found that I like to keep my PAGK squads small (6 man) with 2 Psycannons and my FAGK squad big (10 man) in case I have to deepstrike them.
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Still prefer the "whole lot of PAGK" thing, but haven't tried psycannons yet. At what points are the actually doable, and not a point sink?
I often wander how cool they would be with the psycannons. I guess they own eldar 8Y
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the way I see it is psycannons should really only be on GKT for the following reason.
A squad of 4 GKT with 2 psycannons is 254 points, and a squad of 6 PAGK is 225 points.
GKT pros = 2+/5++ save, all powerweapons, full mobility, more S6+ attacks (since they can have THs too), more attacks off the charge.
PAGK pros = 2 more wounds, 4 more stormbolter shots, 29 points cheaper.
To me it is a no brainer leave your PAGK as bulk units and have your GKT for your true killing / support power.
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Thanks again for the read.