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How To beat eldar with this list

3K views 14 replies 11 participants last post by  gilli247 
#1 ·
Chapter Master- mater crafted lightning claws, t.honours- 135

5 Command squad- apothercary with power fist, company champion, vetran sergant with power fist, all have terminator hounours and furious charge- 225
Razorback- heavy bolter, extra armour, smoke luanchers, dozer blade-79

5 terminators- 2 assualt cannons-240

Dreadanought- extra armour, smoke launchers- 113

10 man tactical squad, vetran sergant with power fist, plasma gun-190
rhino- extra armour, smoke luanchers- 58

7 man tactical squad- vetran seragnt with master crafted power fist, heavy bolter-155

5 devastotors- 4 missile launchers-155

predator annhilator- 2 lasconnon sponsors, extra armour, 150

This is what i have in my army and me and my friend have started up a narative based campaign which uses the same 1500 army list throughout so our armies can really gain some charecter with battle hounours etc. His army contains aspect warriors (10 Harliquins, 10 dire avegers with a attached autarch, 6 howling banseesin a wave serpant) and mobile fire surport, 2 anti tank warwalkers, dark reapers, fire prism, 5 pathfinders.

I was wondering does anyone have any advice on how to beat this army or any week spots that i could exploit.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
And you need more bodies on that devastor squad. The last thing you want to do is have to take off a fifteen point model with a twenty point gun as a casualty. Idealy for a dev squad you should have one meat shield per heavy weapon and the squad leader is bare bones with a bolter.

Yours is a very elite list and you have almost as many points put into toys as you do boys. This is dangerous as each casualty is really going to hurt you.

Ok but you asked for tactics. You will have fire supperiority so make sure you take down the squads that can hurt you the most first. That means the reapers, banshees (DONT LET THEM NEAR THE HQ), fire prism and war walkers
These should be your first targets and what i remember (its been a while since i played against an army of sissys) the walkers and prism will be hard to take down for your lone las tank (which will be under fire) and your stationary rocket launcher squad which should be used to take down those reapers.
 
#4 ·
Reapers are deadly against marines, but when it comes down to a Missle launver vs Reaper launcher fire fight, they don't have the numbers to take a beating, while you'd have bolter marines to sacrifice.
I think you might want to destroy the wave serpent first, then the walkers, but that would depend on deployment, distances, etc, so don't take that as immutable.
What is your dreadnought armed with? If it is armed with anti-tank (If not I think it should be) than you can use to take down either the walkers or the serpent.
I think you have way too much upgrades on your guys(especially on your vehicles, you have extra armour and smoke launchers on evrything), I went through that phase once, don't be fooled. I tpays to have more men, especially in your dev squad, you want to have bodies to spare so you can keep your big guns firing.

If you want to use your command squad as an expensive spledgehammer, make sure you support it and have enough guys to suppress whatever your hammers not hitting. Bottom line: less upgrades, don't conflict upgrades (powerfist and plasma gun?), and get more guys.
 
#5 ·
umm some intresting comments, i will take on take off extra armour/smo.l of dread and pred.ann. i ussualy go for a refused flank putting c.squad term/dread and the rhino squad on one flank while the 7 man squad pred and devastotors on the other, annyway the point of telling you this is becuase the command squad although expensive is surported and gets the job done e.g killing a nasty squad, the dread by the way is anti infantry (need it against eldar, finally the reason i put squads with conflicting upgrades is so they are versitile e.g plasma gun squad rapid fire but can stand up in assualt, do you think that it is a bad idea?

cool tactical advice, taking out those pesky reapers with missile launchers is somthing that i hadn't thought of, it is difficult to take down the warwalkers and fire prism because they are alot more mobile then my tanks so tend to hide in cover and pop out to fire any ideas?
 
#6 ·
They can't move shoot then move again against the new codex rules.;Y
However to add to your tactics you can shoot from far and win. But if this eldar player has a Autarch or Farseer beware of them also. The Autarch will just murder in close combat if accompanied by a squad and the farseer's psychic's abilities isn't anything to laugh at either.
 
#8 ·
Well, I would change a few things about your list - but since you asked how to beat Eldar with this particular list...

Pack 'em in tight when you deploy, with overlapping fields of fire. Keep your units outside of their transports and deply them roughly left and right in your formation at about the 1/3rd points. But keep them out of sight if possible.

Strategy: he has mobility on you so deny him that advantage by keeping everyone neighborly.

The Wave Serpent will fly up fast to deploy his Harlies or Banshees close for some mayhem. That is where your transports come in. Wherever the WS stops, you move the nearest transport at full speed and park it behind his ramp so the unit cannot deploy at the beginning of the next turn. Your opponent will then have to choose to sacrifice the Wave Serpent or delay deploying his unit for another turn. Either way, you have already upset his plan and he will start to make more errors in frustration. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

Concentrate on his long-ranged forepower first. The goal is to force him to march to you (remember, he has the mobility advantage, so set your tactics so that it plays into your hand).

Once a unit reaches you for close combat - surround them (that is another reason you set up close and tight - that and your Apothecary can get some work done early in the game). Once he loses a Morale Check, you can remove the unit since it cannot retreat.

Note: Do not use this tactic against armies with Ordinace weapons.
 
#9 ·
Attacking

a lot of the commnts involve staying back and firing, does anyone think its a good idea to attack (look at my refused flank tactic) or is that a awful idea, better to stay back then counter attack?

thanks for all the great commnts so far

P.S i wouldn't mind if you do make comments on the army list, theres a thread in the army list section with it on which would be ideal if you did want to crisisize it (which would be good)

Thanks Gilli
 
#11 ·
Most eldar weapons have short ranges. The shuriken gun is like 18 inches to the bolters 24. You definatly outrange the normal weapons. Ive been told be vet eldar players that Eldar make better assault units, strange as it may seem. Id try to take out his long range weapons such as the fire prism and reapers first. I'd also avoid close combat with the Harlequins like the plague too. Shoot them before they get to you.
 
#12 · (Edited)
yeah the Dire avenger shruiken gun is 18" compared to your bolter 24, but in order to get 24" you cannot move, meaning if your bolters CAN hit them, next turn your going to get littered with rounds from an 18" bladestorm, and that means next round you'll have to move to rapid fire range, or else you're going to waste shots again..

which in TURN means the eldar player will get you into combat...where his exarch will hurt you
....

You've got to think 2 turns ahead atleast.

With that list, your BEST bet..(if he doesn't have any EXTREME long range stuff, which he probably will)

Don't bother putting the men in the rhino..use the rhino as mobile cover.....

use the predator to plink squads off from the distance and keep it obscured..All the weapons on the pred have range over the eldar brightlance (that predators bane..) so use that to your advantage...The ONLY thing that poses a threat is a fire prism, and i'd say war walkers with pulse lasers and missile launchers...Nothing else can get in range of your predator that's a risk...

the dread should focus on weaker squads, like dire avengers and banshee's where it's assault cannon can chew them up..and they can't really capitolize on it in Close combat (use the dread to tie up units that would manhandle your heavy bolter squad)

Your terminators are a heavy point sink....So make sure they stay safe, use a squad of marines as a buffer for them if you can..if not have them follow the dread, using the dread as mobile cover aswell..that way you won't have to worry about a dire avenger blade storm (yeah i know, but the best way to kill a terminator is make it take ALOT of saves, which is what 3 shots a piece will do only needing 4's to wound. that's going to be about 1 save cause by each dire avenger shooting....and you'll fail 1 in 6 according to statistics... so your 5 man term squad could be REALLY hurting from a decent sized bladestorm.

so like i said, use Range to your advantage..your terms have 2 assault cannons that deny most eldar their saves, and have range on most of their prevalent ground units and an invuln save to help with the missiles lances and lasers, but don't be careless with them
 
#13 ·
Uhhhh...

Your army doesn't have enough daka to out shoot an eldar list... Not counting the list, (which I think would be much better served with a chaplain leading it than a master btw)

My advice would be to either send the dread at the Dark reapers (if he makes the mistake of isolating them too far away from fire support) and hug cover until they're eliminated; or deep strike some terminators nearby and just fire at them to death.... I know they have a 3 + save, but they're still T 3; many wounds shall befall them. lol

Don't worry about the banshees TOOO much, so long as you stay at least 12 inches away from their transport, and don't overly isolate a squad; you're all good. ;Y

You'll probably want to down the wave serpent first with your missile launcher squad if possible, and concentrate on shaking the fire prism every turn with your pred.

Dire avengers are annoying; but so long as there is no farsser in the llist; they're not something to get overly cautious about.

Oh, and I've tried to out gun a reaper squad with a dev squad before... ;o:0don't try it.... if you win, consider yourself VERY lucky... Sure you have more ablative wounds; but the squad just kills WAYY too many marines to tango with.... and really, if your playing a smart opponent, the MOST you'll ever do is hit with all four shots, and wound with all 4 shots, and make them attempt 4 cover saves... where as they AVERAGE 4-6 wounds; and if the exarch uses crack shot, you won't even get a cover save for a some of the... oh yeah, don't bunch up your guys around them... the exarch will literally have a field day...

make no mistake though, the two most difficult "all comers" armies to play against for marines are eldar, and IG... Just be happy he didn't take eldrad, and the headache that is the avatar, or a couple of wraithlords... :party2:

Oh... and use the rhino to rush the harlequins when they're in range... a full squad should kill about 6 of them through fire alone... hopefully by the time they're in range, you've gunned down the big priorities, and can focus fire more guns on them... but if need be, your rhino alone can probably win combat against them-- though you'll probably suffer some casualties... and don't forget to shoot with the rhinop-- I know it's common sense, but many people seem to forget that they come with stormbolters..
 
#14 ·
K mate, heres the Intrl froma guy involed in a 5 Week LEague/Tourney where most my opponents are eldar and I've massacred them every time.


1) You opponenet is one troop choice shy of a legal list (Unless I missed something) He only has 1 Troop choice (the DA)

2) Harlequins: DOn't waste fire on them till you can step upa nd rapid fire. This will normally destroy a Harlysquad almost completely.

3) SAVE your terminators for a deepstrike. Don't leave them int he open for eldar High STR high AP fire.

4) Krak Missile the Reapers, Have to get them dead. If theya re in cover and bunched DON'T KRAK, use Frag ot make themt ake as many saves as possible. Easier to fail 3-#+ saves that to fail one 4+.

5) Problem with denied flank is your Rhino/Pred/Dread are all grouped together and that makes it easy for the Eldar player to put his anti tank where it needs to be.

6) I understand the Pfist and Plasma gun in the Tac Squad, allows you to get more bang for your buck until you have to charge or counter attack, but honestly, 'cept for Harlies, Banshees and sometimes scorps, Marines pull the eldar apart with their bare hands in CC, so you might consider losing one or the other, the plasma gun is kinda overkill on Weak Toughness Eldar.

7) WORST Thing to do with your terminators is put them in CC< your assault cannons and storm bolters will do more then their Pfists.

8) IF You get the first turn, focus ALL your heavy weapons on destroying the Eldar Prisma nd Warwalkers. First turnt hey don't get to haved moved so you don't have to about ONLY glancing them.

9) Consider using Deepstriking terminators to take care of the Dark Reapers if they aren't easily killed by turn two.

10) The command squad is tooled ot be VERY effective in CC. Only thing is, you don't NEED to be VEY effective in CC against hte Eldar, (Provided you Shoot the Harlies and the Banshees), your Commander with Lightning Claws will normally kill enough to break the squad. Trust me, my big CC element is a Librarian w/Assault Squad of 7 Men. THey dot he job, and do it well. Just Pfist the sergeant and your good to go, LOTS cheaper to bulk out your squads.

11) Your biggest weaknesses are:
a-Bodies
b-Bolters
You don't have enough of either to make it hard ont he Eldar to choose WHAT he should shoot.

12) With all your stuff being Kitted out to the 9's, he can shoot at ANYTHING and feel good about it. HE's not forced to ignore the Devestaros for the 10 man botlers squad howling down at him, or vice versa.

13) BIGGEST thing to remeber is FIRING PRIORITY:
A starcannon isn't your biggest threat, nor an Edlar missile launcher if they aren't looking at a vehicle.Massed fire is, don't forget Eldar w/o the Avatar CANNOT regroup at under 50%.

14) Between your Devestators and the Predator you can be wiping out a squad (at least) a turn. Do that. If you don't get the first turn, (I'm gonna be flamed ofr this lol) IGNORE the prism at first, other stuff is easier to kill and reduce the damage you take.

15) Lastly, Eldar CC troops are hard to out CC. But don't worry about them until they're able to threaten CC.

16) I'd say loosen up a few points and add more basic marines, or Assault marines w/o Jump packs (Or with, you call) to add guns.

Good luck against he Decadent Eldar!
 
#15 ·
thanks for advice

thanks again for the advice, you can see this guys army list in the eldar section (lskin) he beaten me a few times but i beat him most of the time, i ussualy keep the term's on the board in order to keep there fire power, I know a lot of people do'nt like my list but its quite rigid becuase of the fluff based codex i created for my army, trust me it used to be even more pionts on the command squad, im planing to change it slightly after the campaign but no radical changes, thanks for all the awsome advice everybody, it realy appricated,

Gilli
 
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