Question on AC Doctrines in Apocalypse games - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Question on AC Doctrines in Apocalypse games

    Pretty simple question: Can you use the Armoured Company doctrines (from the AC rules packet on the GW website) on superheavy vehicles?

    I am thinking yes, since the ones with restrictions only require that they be applied to tanks (which the Baneblade and variants are typed as), but wanted some clarification. Obviously some of them would not apply, such as Improved Sponsons, but more generally applicable ones like Evasive Driving or Machine God's Blessing could work without any rules conflicts. Particularly, Ace Gunners looks like it would work wonders with a Baneblade.

    Thanks,
    Vesper


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    Mr Commisar to you Commisarlestat's Avatar
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    I'm not sure on this. I always thought that the baneblade was a war machine and not a tank as such. If it says it is in the profile bt then by all means go for it but if it doesn't then no you can't simple really!

    Hope that helps

    A

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    Suffer not the Unclean InquisitorAffe's Avatar
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    It's a little bit murky, but I think not. Can't remember what the Apoc Book says about Baneblades, they can take 'vehicle upgrades' from the owning army's list or something? Doctrines aren't really 'upgrades,' the rules in the Armored Company list are for models selected from that list! To me it's more or less the same as taking a Blood Angels army and giving them traits from the main Space Marine Codex, or buyng your IG officer Lightning Claws and Aritificer armor from the Space Marine armory.

    I'm pretty sure if 'Ace Gunner' were available to BaneBlades, it would cost a good deal more points.

    That said, it's Apocalypse, lots of rules isn't really the point, so if the people you play with don't care, who does? On the flipside, it's Apocalypse, it's supposed to be for fun. A loophole that allows you to massively buff a superheavy for a fraction of its point cost doesn't seem in the spirit of the thing. Maybe if you scaled the cost of the doctrine proportionally from the cost of a leman russ to the cost of a baneblade.... =)

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    @Commisarlestat: I checked the Apocalypse book (p. 104) and the Baneblade is listed as "Type: Super-heavy Tank".

    @InquisitorAffe: I realize it would be extremely useful (which I why I asked), but I think that its point cost is balanced by the fact that to use AC doctrines you would need to use actual AC list, meaning the rather substantial costs of Command Tanks & Tank Aces, which I think would balance it out (particularly when you consider every other IG army can field a 'Emperor's Fist' Armored Company formation in Apocalypse.
    Last edited by Vesper; March 12th, 2008 at 21:44.

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    As I believe there is no official anwser to this question yet, so it's really up to you and your opponent to work it out.

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    Set Sail and Conquer! Cadaver Junkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxDv View Post
    As I believe there is no official anwser to this question yet, so it's really up to you and your opponent to work it out.
    I dunno, seems pretty straight forward to me!


    Question: Is the baneblade a part of the AC army list?

    Answer: No.


    Therefor, I'm sorry to say, there is no way you can apply any doctrines to the thing. Otherwise, I could apply my Skitarii's bionics doctrine to any marine allies I happen to take! Or maybe the other way around, my skitarii could be running around with divergent traits.

    So yeah, unless something is actually specifically stated in an army list, it cannot be done.


    On the other hand, as IquisitorAffe has stated, apocalypse should be about have fun with your mates, so if you clear it with them first, there shouldn't be a problem.
    Last edited by Cadaver Junkie; March 13th, 2008 at 00:25. Reason: Monkeys left something out
    "Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"

    Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.

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    Suffer not the Unclean InquisitorAffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesper View Post
    @Commisarlestat: I checked the Apocalypse book (p. 104) and the Baneblade is listed as "Type: Super-heavy Tank".

    @InquisitorAffe: I realize it would be extremely useful (which I why I asked), but I think that its point cost is balanced by the fact that to use AC doctrines you would need to use actual AC list, meaning the rather substantial costs of Command Tanks & Tank Aces, which I think would balance it out (particularly when you consider every other IG army can field a 'Emperor's Fist' Armored Company formation in Apocalypse.
    Well, like I said "It's Apocalypse." Without some more context, it's tough to be objective. If you were playing an all-AC army with the associated strengths and weaknesses of such a list, I wouldn't mind letting you apply the doctrines to your super heavy. on the flipside, you could take a single command tank and three 'tricked out' BaneBlades as your 'AC section' and put them into an assaulty marine army, which I personally would be rather loathe to play against. It's like, yes Apocalypse lets you take a tau gunline backed by 30 harlequins, but that's not really the point of the thing. If the folks you're playing with perceive that you're playing an armored company based on the background material for imperial army organisation that has a baneblade, I'd expect they'd be cool with it. If their perception is that you're like the guy using 30 harlequins to defend his tau suit army from assault, just looking for the most advantageous loop holes to stomp the snot out of people, I'd expect them to be rather against the idea =)

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    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    I think that Cadaver has hit the target with this one. A lists bonus cannot be applied to something that isn't in the list. If the baneblade is not in the AC list, then the AC bonuses can't be applied to it. Quite simple.
    Besides, it's defined as a "Super-Heavy Tank" instead of a plain ol' "Tank". Petty semantic difference, but it there it is. It isn't a tank, it's a super heavy tank.
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

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    I finally got a hold of IA1 and checked the AC list in it which is pretty close (though different) to the one on the GW list and it does state explicitly that the Ace Crew abilities can not be applied to superheavy vehicles.

    I, however, find another way that it could effectively be applied, that being one of the special characters in the book. Maximillian Weisemann is fielded with a standard Baneblade, gives it BS 4, and allows it to reroll one to-hit roll or one scatter die per turn (also effectively gives it EA) and costs ~100 points more than the standard baneblade listed in that book.

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