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  1. #1
    Senior Member dinodeanpostcat's Avatar
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    Confused Daemonhunter Needs Help

    The more I read threads the more I get confused.

    For example, I read people refering to Assault Cannons as 4 shots and rending, when the Daemonhunter one is 3 shots and not rending. Daemonhunter Land Raiders listed as having power of the machine spirit, whilst they do not have them in the Codex.

    What is going on?

    What have I been missing out on using only the Daemonhunter Codex?

    Help ;o

    Thanks


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  3. #2
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    The Deamonhunter 'Dex is older (by quite a bit) than the Space Marine 'Dex.

    They changed the rules for the Assault Cannon in that Space Marine revision, we get to use the "latest" weapon rules, but pay the Deamonhunter price. Our AC's are exactly the same as the Space Marine ones and so is our Landraiders as far as rules.

    Cheers, DH
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  4. #3
    Member staged_war1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer View Post
    The Deamonhunter 'Dex is older (by quite a bit) than the Space Marine 'Dex.

    They changed the rules for the Assault Cannon in that Space Marine revision, we get to use the "latest" weapon rules, but pay the Deamonhunter price. Our AC's are exactly the same as the Space Marine ones and so is our Landraiders as far as rules.

    Cheers, DH

    Could you potentially provide a page ref/FAQ Link where it explicitly states that? The players in my club have been treating them differently (as technically they are) and if this is true then I'd like to be able to show the guys who play GKs that they're not getting screwed anymore!



  5. #4
    Senior Member dinodeanpostcat's Avatar
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    Yes, that's exactly my problem 'staged_war1'.

    Since when have you been able to pinch the best bits from one Codex to use in another?

    I thought that what it said in your Codex were the rules you had to play with, old though they may be.

    For all tournaments, under the army selection bit, it says 'Codex Daemonhunters' or words to that affect, and not 'Codex Daemonhunters plus Codex Space Marines where it is better'.

    Anyway, to echo 'staged_war1', where is the official line on this one?

  6. #5
    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinodeanpostcat View Post
    Yes, that's exactly my problem 'staged_war1'.

    Since when have you been able to pinch the best bits from one Codex to use in another?

    I thought that what it said in your Codex were the rules you had to play with, old though they may be.

    For all tournaments, under the army selection bit, it says 'Codex Daemonhunters' or words to that affect, and not 'Codex Daemonhunters plus Codex Space Marines where it is better'.

    Anyway, to echo 'staged_war1', where is the official line on this one?
    *Sighs* here we go again.

    Probably the most convincing evidence to date is the French version of the DH codex, which uses the updated statlines, profiles, and weapons/wargear descriptions from Codex: Space Marines. That said, it seems a little odd having to import a codex (or download it) in a different language just to prove your point.

    Calls made to GW by myself and others here at LO have yielded the same information (though of course that's anecdotal). Most tournaments screw rules up all the time (just take a look at some of the rule packets). I suspect tournament organizers have a vested interest in giving the simplest answers possible, so that things stay ... well, organized . Consequently, that's not any more official than calls to the GW help line.

    So, to answer your question, the only official ruling (and by that I mean an actual game publication by GW) we have on this one is the French DH codex, which sides with Rending assault cannons, updated teleport homers, etc.

    Sad that we have to resort to a foreign language version (well, foreign to most of us, anyways) but true =(.

    [edit: For further reading, just do some searching with the Search function here and probably over in the Rules forum. You should be able to come up with more threads than you know what to do with, so you can look at all the arguments and decide for yourself what the most convincing one is.]

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  7. #6
    Member Sam51's Avatar
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    Could you potentially provide a page ref/FAQ Link where it explicitly states that?
    My codex I believe is the most up to date English one. One the very last page page 62 says assault cannons are heavy 3 and does not say the are rending. So these are the rules I would use.

    the FAQ does not say anything other than this.

    GW Online : Download Agreement

    but then only the dreadnought seems to use one.

  8. #7
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
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    My codex I believe is the most up to date English one. One the very last page page 62 says assault cannons are heavy 3 and does not say the are rending. So these are the rules I would use.
    Because space marines have a newer codex with the same weapon armanents for the most part, the rules for the assault cannon are used from that one rather then the DH one. Its the same weapon, SM codex is newer and overrides older rules.
    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
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  9. #8
    Member staged_war1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pathofskulls View Post
    Because space marines have a newer codex with the same weapon armanents for the most part, the rules for the assault cannon are used from that one rather then the DH one. Its the same weapon, SM codex is newer and overrides older rules.

    Soo..since the SM codex doesn't have any of the rules for the shrouding and all of the other silliness that GKs get, then you don't get them because you're using the newer and more updated codex that supersedes the older one? That's just ludicrous, and anyone that gives it half a thought will realize that you can't just pick and choose what best benefits YOU from piecemeal codices. You play GKs...you use the the GK codex/rules (to include the variance in the hurricane bolter on the LRC which is BETTER than standard SMs); you play SMs...you use the SM codex/rules with the better assault cannon rules. It's black and white with no middle ground...



  10. #9
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
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    Soo..since the SM codex doesn't have any of the rules for the shrouding and all of the other silliness that GKs get, then you don't get them because you're using the newer and more updated codex that supersedes the older one? That's just ludicrous, and anyone that gives it half a thought will realize that you can't just pick and choose what best benefits YOU from piecemeal codices. You play GKs...you use the the GK codex/rules (to include the variance in the hurricane bolter on the LRC which is BETTER than standard SMs); you play SMs...you use the SM codex/rules with the better assault cannon rules. It's black and white with no middle ground...
    I said weapons, not special abilities. Shrouding is a special ability, I always used the SM rules for my vehicles and guns. And I've yet to hear of anyone else having trouble using the SM assault cannon rules.
    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
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  11. #10
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by staged_war1 View Post
    Soo..since the SM codex doesn't have any of the rules for the shrouding and all of the other silliness that GKs get, then you don't get them because you're using the newer and more updated codex that supersedes the older one? That's just ludicrous, and anyone that gives it half a thought will realize that you can't just pick and choose what best benefits YOU from piecemeal codices. You play GKs...you use the the GK codex/rules (to include the variance in the hurricane bolter on the LRC which is BETTER than standard SMs); you play SMs...you use the SM codex/rules with the better assault cannon rules. It's black and white with no middle ground...
    Play the way you want. Fine with me. It doesn't make sense that GW would change weaponry for army and not the other armies that have the exact SAME weapons. If you have played for many years like I have, you might understand this convention.
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

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